> On Jul 10, 10:51 pm, Ed earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>
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>

>> On Jul 10, 1:53 pm, turtoni fastmail.net> wrote:

>

>>> On Jul 10, 10:47 am, Ed earthlink.net> wrote:

>

>>>> On Jul 10, 1:25 am, turtoni fastmail.net> wrote:> How about rebuilding the United Nations to include only those nations

>>>>> that are considered to be Democratic with in a globally defined
>>>>> definition of what we mean by democracy.

>

>>>>> All the nations within the unification do not do business with any
>>>>> nation that is not considered to be democratic.

>

>>>>> Obviously this would be pretty painful since there's stuff we need
>>>>> from the other types of governments but in the long run, ideally this
>>>>> would push those outside the unification to adopt the globally defined
>>>>> democratic government.

>

>>>>> As it stand know it seems immoral for us to do business with non-
>>>>> democratic governments.

>

>>>> Saudi Arabia is a Monarchy.
>>>> Monaco is a Monarchy

>

>>>> The definition seems tricky.

>

>>>> Zimbabwe is a democracy, as is Myanmar.

>

>>>> I think I'd rather have Monaco in the UN than Zimbabwe.

>

>>> Why?- Hide quoted text -

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>>> - Show quoted text -

>

>> Because I compare the situation in Zimbabwe with the situation for
>> people in Monaco and feel the decision making process in Monaco
>> ikindlier, more compassionate and better for the people that the
>> democratic one in Zimbabwe and if the UN is to have power better it be
>> wielded by nations like Monaco, whether they are democratic or not.

>
> "Monaco, is a small sovereign city-state located in Western Europe.
> The territory lies on the northern coast of the Mediterranean Sea and
> is completely enclosed by France. Monaco is often regarded as a tax
> haven, and many of its inhabitants are wealthy and from foreign
> countries (including France), although they are not a majority."
>

> I think that speaks for itself about the meaning of Monaco.
>
> I'm not sure we could consider Zimbabwe to be truly democratic:
>

> "Zimbabwe has a parliamentary government. Under constitutional changes
> in 2005, an upper chamber, the Senate, was reinstated. The House of
> Assembly is the lower chamber of Parliament.
>
> President Robert Mugabe's Zimbabwe African National Union – Patriotic
> Front has been the dominant political party in Zimbabwe since
> independence. In 1987 then-prime minister Mugabe revised the
> constitution and made himself president. His ZANU party has won every
> election since independence. In particular, the elections of 1990 were
> nationally and internationally condemned as being rigged, with the
> second-placed party, Edgar Tekere's Zimbabwe Unity Movement, winning
> only 16%% of the vote. Presidential elections were again held in 2002
> amid allegations of vote-rigging, intimidation and fraud. General
> elections were held in Zimbabwe on 30 March 2008.[35] The official
> results required a runoff between Mugabe and Morgan Tsvangirai, the
> opposition leader, however the MDC challenged these results, claiming
> widespread election fraud by the Mugabe government. The runoff was
> scheduled for June 27, 2008. On June 22nd, however, citing the
> continuing unfairness of the process and refusing to participate in a
> "violent, illegitimate sham of an election process", Tsvangirai pulled
> out of the presidential run-off, effectively handing victory to
> Mugabe.
>
> The Movement for Democratic Change led by Morgan Tsvangirai is the
> largest opposition party. The MDC was formerly split into two
> factions. One faction, led by Arthur Mutambara contested the elections
> to the Senate, while the other, led by Morgan Tsvangirai, opposed to
> contesting the elections, stating that participation in a rigged
> election is tantamount to endorsing Mugabe's claim that past elections
> were free and fair. However, the opposition parties have resumed
> participation in national and local elections as recently as 2006. The
> two MDC camps had their congresses in 2005 with Morgan Tsvangirai
> being elected to lead the main splinter group which has become more
> popular than the other group. Mutambara, a robotics professor and
> former NASA robotics specialist has replaced Welshman Ncube who was
> the interim leader after the split. Morgan Tsvangirai did not
> participate in the Senate elections, while the Mutambara faction
> participated and won five seats in the senate. The Mutambara faction
> has however been weakened by defections from MPs and individuals who
> are disillusioned by their manifesto. As of 2008, the Tsvangirai-led
> MDC has become the most popular, with crowds as large as 20,000
> attending their rallies as compared to between 500–5,000 for the other
> splinter group. There is wide disagreement in Zimbabwe and
> neighbouring states as to whether a divided MDC can win presidential
> elections against a disciplined ruling party. The opposition continues
> to be weak in rural areas, where a large number of the population of
> Zimbabwe resides. On 28 April 2008, Tsvangirai and Mutambara announced
> at a joint news conference in Johannesburg that the two MDC factions
> were reuniting, enabling the MDC to have a clear parliamentary
> majority.[38][39] Tsvangirai said that Mugabe could not remain
> President without a parliamentary majority. On the same day,
> Silaigwana announced that the recounts for the final five
> constituencies had been completed, that the results were being
> collated and that they would be published on 29 April.
>
> The 2005 Zimbabwe parliamentary elections were held on March 31 and
> multiple claims of vote rigging, election fraud and intimidation were
> made by the MDC and Jonathan Moyo, calling for investigations into 32
> of the 120 constituencies. Jonathan Moyo participated in the elections
> despite the allegations and won a seat as an independent member of
> Parliament." - wiki- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -