Re: rationalism and rational unreality (VR) with kev's reply to turtoni
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Re: rationalism and rational unreality (VR) with kev's reply to turtoni         

Group: alt.philosophy · Group Profile
Author: kevirwin
Date: Apr 28, 2008 18:37

On Apr 28, 2:03 am, turtoni fastmail.net> wrote:
> On Apr 28, 12:26 am, kevirwin comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>> On Apr 27, 7:50 pm, turtoni fastmail.net> wrote:
>
>>>>
>>>> The more you see your own individuality, the less the subconscious
>>>> dictates.
>>>>
>
>>>> I needed to see that...thanks Brian....
>
>>>> K e v
>
>>  - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>> -- --> is this like taking a placebo philosophical supplement?
>
>
>>> HTH.-
>
>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>> - - - - -
>> U-tube was sick when I tried the link, but I saw it was "Our House".
>
>> hey, a placebo for you; a new thought-train for me....Anything that
>> gets my mind working in new directions is a big "plus"...
>
> yeah that was an in joke with Brian.
>
>
>
>
>
>> Here's a thought (kind of a long one, so bear with it) ---- I like you
>> and I like Brian (which many people in this forum think should *not*
>> be a factor; "liking someone", that is). I tend to check out both your
>> posts, partially for that reason. While I find some of your links
>> "obscure", I also don't understand Brian's meaning all the time
>> either. (point is coming up)...Last preface to "the point" - Whenever
>> I did read something, especially in my school years, and was asked if
>> I "understood" what the author meant, my first thought was almost
>> always, "Who cares what he meant?" When the author **wrote** it, the
>> thought was his. When I **read** it, the thought (meaning) is mine. If
>> they happen to be the same..serendipity...but irrelevant to me. The
>> value of **anything** in this forum is what it does for me,
>> **regardless** of what the author of the thought intended.
>
>> There isn’t a person in this forum that has a clue about what
>> “reality” is (along with the other six billion or so on this miserable
>> sphere who don’t even think about it). We spew words out at each other
>> in this forum, debate, hate, sometimes reason – and every now and
>> then, I see a combination of words that trigger something **in my
>> Head**, and I say, “Thank You.”
>
>> That might have been more than one thought,
>> K e v
>
> Well i like you too K e v.
>
> I am typically cynical. Here's too longish articles. worth reading
> imo.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynicism
>
> "Nearly 2000 years after certain Greek philosophers first embraced
> classical cynicism, 17th and 18th century writers such as Shakespeare,
> Swift, and Voltaire, following in the traditions of Geoffrey Chaucer
> and François Rabelais, used irony, sarcasm, and satire (which had
> never gone out of fashion) to ridicule human conduct and revive
> cynicism. Nineteenth- and twentieth-century literary and cinema
> figures such as Mark Twain, Dorothy Parker, H.L. Mencken, and W.C.
> Fields used cynicism as way of communicating their low opinions of
> certain manifestations of human nature. By 1930, Bertrand Russell — in
> the essay On Youthful Cynicism[5] — could describe the extent to which
> (in his view) cynicism had penetrated parts of Western mass
> consciousness, and could note particular areas partially deserving of
> cynicism: religion, country (patriotism), progress, beauty, truth. The
> first half of the 20th century, with its two World Wars, offered
> little hope to people wishing to embrace an idealism diametrically
> opposed to cynicism: seeing fellow-humans as trustworthy, well-
> intentioned, caring, decent, and honourable.
>
> The second half of the 20th century featured a general
> rejection[citation needed] of virtue and self-restraint, and a
> movement toward materialism — particularly in what Pope John Paul II
> termed "the cynical society of consumerism" in his 1984 Christmas
> remarks. The same communications media whose advertising bolstered
> consumerism also occasionally promoted entertaining conspiracy
> theories, thus adding the long-standing traditions of conspiracies to
> a new "hidden agenda" dimension to the cynicism of some.
>
> In recent decades, the study of human nature — one book's title
> portrays a Battle for Human Nature[9] — focused new attention on
> cynicism.[citation needed] In attempting to counter an alleged
> widespread belief portraying "jungle ethics" and the associated
> competition, self-interest, and survival of the fittest as innate to
> the human animal, researchers[who?] with an opposing agenda looked for
> a genetic basis for co-operation and altruistic behaviour, and for
> signs that human societal participation ultimately built upon co-
> operation and altruism. Alfie Kohn argued that a person's cynicism
> stems from escaping responsibility, another belief sees cynicism as
> following sophistication in human psychological development.
>
> In 2005, researchers at Yale University found that children as young
> as eight years old could discount the statements of others as
> tarnished with "self-interest".
>
> Brian takes about:
> Self-actualization — a concept Maslow attributed to Kurt Goldstein,
> one of his mentors — is the instinctual need of humans to make the
> most of their abilities and to strive to be the best they can. Working
> toward fulfilling our potential, toward becoming all that we are
> capable of becoming.
>
> In Maslow's scheme, the final stage of psychological development comes
> when the individual feels assured that his physiological, security,
> affiliation and affection, self-respect, and recognition needs have
> been satisfied. As these become dormant, he becomes filled with a
> desire to realize all of his potential for being an effective,
> creative, mature human being. "What a man can be, he must be"[1], is
> the way Maslow expresses it.
>
> Maslow's need hierarchy is set forth as a general proposition and does
> not imply that everyone's needs follow the same rigid pattern. For
> some people, self-esteem seems to be a stronger motivation than love.
> Mussolini, for example, alienated his closest friends by undertaking
> reckless military adventures to achieve status as a conqueror. (This
> example can also be used to illustrate the means-to-an-end dilemma of
> human motivation. That is, Mussolini may have reached for status as a
> means to gaining the affection of Adolf Hitler. More will be said
> about this problem later.) For some people, the need to create is
> often a stronger motivation than the need for food and safety. Thus,
> the artist living in poverty is a classic example of reversing the
> standard hierarchy of needs. Similarly, persons who have suffered
> hunger or some other deprivation for protracted periods may live
> happily for the rest of their lives if only they can get enough of
> what they lacked. In this case, the level of aspiration may have
> become permanently lowered and the higher-order, less prepotent needs
> may never become active. There are also cases of people's martyring
> themselves for causes and suffering all kinds of deprivations,
> particularly in the physiological, safety, and sometimes social
> categories, to achieve their goals.
>
> Maslow writes the following of self-actualizing people:
>
> They embrace the facts and realities of the world (including
> themselves) rather than denying or avoiding them.
> They are spontaneous in their ideas and actions.
> They are creative.
> They are interested in solving problems; this often includes the
> problems of others. Solving these problems is often a key focus in
> their lives.
> They feel a closeness to other people, and generally appreciate life.
> They have a system of morality that is fully internalized and
> independent of external authority.
> They have discernment and are able to view all things in an objective
> manner.
> To further confound the problem of understanding motivation, Maslow
> points out that motives are not always conscious.[1] In the average
> person, he believes, they are more often unconscious than conscious —
> showing the influence on his thinking of Freudian psychologists who
> have long been concerned with the hidden causes of human behavior.
>
> In Maslow's theory, then, human needs are arranged in a hierarchy of
> importance. Needs emerge only when higher-priority needs have been
> satisfied. By the same token, satisfied needs no longer influence
> behavior. This point seems worth stressing to managers and
> administrators, who often mistakenly assume that money and other
> tangible incentives are the only cures for morale and productivity
> problems. It may be, however, that the need to participate, to be
> recognized, to be creative, and to experience a sense of worth are
> better motivators in an affluent society, where many have already
> achieved an acceptable measure of freedom from hunger and threats to
> security and personal safety, and are now driven by higher-order
> psychological needs.
>
> In short, self-actualization is reaching one's fullest potential.
> However, to further clarify “There are certain conditions which are
> immediate prerequisites for the basic need satisfactions.” “Such
> conditions as freedom to speak, freedom to do what one wishes so long
> as no harm is done to others, freedom to express one's self, freedom
> to investigate and seek for information, freedom to defend one's self,
> justice, fairness, honesty, orderliness in the group are examples of
> such preconditions for basic need satisfactions.” [1]
>
> According to Maslow, the tendencies of self-actualizing people are as
> follows:
>
> 1. Awareness
>
> efficient perception of reality
> freshness of appreciation
> peak experiences
> ethical awareness
> 2. Honesty
>
> philosophical sense of humour
> social interest
> deep interpersonal relationships
> democratic character structure
> 3. Freedom
>
> need for solitude
> autonomous, independent
> creativity, originality
> spontaneous
> 4. Trust
>
> problem centered
> acceptance of self, others, nature
> resistance to enculturation - identity with humanity
> Maslow discovered that healthy individuals are motivated toward what
> he termed self-actualization, and noted that Self-actualizing people
> had strikingly similar characteristics. He described self-
> actualization as:
>
> “an episode or spurt in which the powers of the person come together
> in a ...
>
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Thanks for your reply; just got back from the gym and it's too long to
digest right now, but I will. Always lookin' for input....

K e v
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