Re: Rand the Kantian
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Re: Rand the Kantian         

Group: alt.philosophy · Group Profile
Author: Michael Gordge
Date: Aug 23, 2007 13:16

On Aug 24, 3:11 am, "Tron" wrote:
> Kant was the original logical positivist.
>
> 1. First there were the rationalists, rebelling against religious dogma to
> put Reason on the intellectual throne.
> To them (i.e. Descartes), the senses delivered unsorted raw material, to be
> sorted by reason.
>
> 2. Then came the empiricists, proposing that there was no innate faculty
> like reason - there was nothing in the mind that had not before been in the
> senses. The mind was a blank slate, where experience wrote its lessons. The
> obvious flaw was immediately pointed out by Leibniz: There is nothing in the
> mind that had not been in the senses - except the mind itself.
>
> 3. Hume led empiricism ad absurdum by driving the program to its logical
> conclusion, eliminating most possibilities of knowledge, including -
> although he doesn't work this out himself - the premise of empiricism
> itself, i.e. the causal processes of sensation, which can no longer be
> upheld, since we cannot establish causality from experience.
>
> 4. Along comes Kant, awakened by Hume, picking up Leibniz' clue, and
> synthesizing rationalism and empiricism by asking: What is that slate, and
> how does it enable experience to write its lessons? What is the mind before
> it experiences? Is it really blank? Kant's conclusion is, as should be
> known, that it isn't - the rest in KdrV.
> However, he concluded that although we can create all sorts of concepts by
> reason alone, having these concepts doesn't constitute knowledge unless the
> concept is covered, in the banking sense, by a deposit of solid experience.
> And that's as far as we have come, although Wittgenstein, Russel, the Vienna
> Circle et al. have proposed refinements to the below excerpt of KdrV, and
> although certain authoresses even have suggested that this is not what Kant
> originally pointed out.
>
> Rivals include pragmatism in truth theory and constructivism in general
> epistemology, and few others, AFAIK.
>
> http://www.hkbu.edu.hk/~ppp/cpr/toc.html
> $22 The Category has no other Application in Knowledge than to Objects of
> Experience To think an object and to know an object are thus by no means the
> same thing. Knowledge involves two factors: first, the concept, through
> which an object in general is thought (the category); and secondly, the
> intuition (perception), through which it is given. For if no intuition
> (perception) could be given corresponding to the concept, the concept would
> still indeed be a thought, so far as its form is concerned, but would be
> without any object, and no knowledge of anything would be possible by means
> of it. So far as I could know, there would be nothing, and could be nothing,
> to which my thought could be applied. Now, as the Aesthetic has shown, the
> only intuition (perception) possible to us is sensible; consequently, the
> thought of an object in general, by means of a pure concept of
> understanding, can become knowledge for us only in so far as the concept is
> related to objects of the senses. Sensible intuition (perception) is either
> pure intuition (space and time) or empirical intuition (perception) of that
> which is immediately represented, through sensation, as actual in space and
> time. Through the determination of pure intuition we can acquire a priori
> knowledge of objects, as in mathematics, but only in regard to their form,
> as appearances; whether there can be things which must be intuited in this
> form, is still left undecided. Mathematical concepts are not, therefore, by
> themselves knowledge, except on the supposition that there are things which
> allow of being presented to us only in accordance with the form of that pure
> sensible intuition (perception). Now things in space and time are given only
> in so far as they are perceptions (that is, representations accompanied by
> sensation) -- therefore only through empirical representation. Consequently,
> the pure concepts of understanding, even when they are applied to a priori
> intuitions (percepts) , as in mathematics, yield knowledge only in so far as
> these intuitions (percepts) -- and therefore indirectly by their means the
> pure concepts also -- can be applied to empirical intuitions (percepts) .
> Even, therefore, with the aid of [pure] intuition, the categories do not
> afford us any knowledge of things; they do so only through their possible
> application to empirical intuition (perception). In other words, they serve
> only for the possibility of empirical knowledge; and such knowledge is what
> we entitle experience. Our conclusion is therefore this: the categories, as
> yielding knowledge of things, have no kind of application, save only in
> regard to things which may be objects of possible experience.
>
> $23 The above proposition is of the greatest importance; for it determines
> the limits of the employment of the pure concepts of understanding in regard
> to objects, just as the Transcendental Aesthetic determined the limits of
> the employment of the pure form of our sensible intuition (perception).
> Space and time, as conditions under which alone objects can possibly be
> given to us, are valid no further than for objects of the senses, and
> therefore only for experience. Beyond these limits they represent nothing;
> for they are only in the senses, and beyond them have no reality. The pure
> concepts of understanding are free from this limitation, and extend to
> objects of intuition (perception) in general, be the intuition (perception)
> like or unlike ours, if only it be sensible and not intellectual. But this
> extension of concepts beyond our sensible intuition (perception) is of no
> advantage to us. For as concepts of objects they are then empty, and do not
> even enable us to judge of their objects whether or not they are possible.
> They are mere forms of thought, without objective reality, since we have no
> intuition (perception) at hand to which the synthetic unity of apperception,
> which constitutes the whole content of these forms, could be applied, and in
> being so applied determine an object. Only our sensible and empirical
> intuition (perception) can give to them body and meaning. If we suppose an
> object of a non-sensible intuition to be given, we can indeed represent it
> through all the predicates which are implied in the presupposition that it
> has none of the characteristics proper to sensible intuition (perception);
> that it is not extended or in space, that its duration is not a time, that
> no change (succession of determinations in time) is to be met with in it,
> etc. But there is no proper knowledge if I thus merely indicate what the
> intuition (perception) of an object is not, without being able to say what
> it is that is contained in the intuition (perception). For I have not then
> shown that the object which I am thinking through my pure concept is even so
> much as possible, not being in a position to give any intuition (perception)
> corresponding to the concept, and being able only to say that our intuition
> (perception) is not applicable to it. But what has chiefly to be noted is
> this, that to such a something [in general] not a single one of all the
> categories could be applied. We could not, for instance, apply to it the
> concept of substance, meaning something which can exist as subject and never
> as mere predicate. For save in so far as empirical intuition (perception)
> provides the instance to which to apply it, I do not know whether there can
> be anything that corresponds to such a form of thought. But of this more
> hereafter.
>
> T

And the only possible reason ewe did not mention Rand once in your
idiotic Kantian piffle, even though the title suggests you would, just
shows how fucking desperate ewes need to get, how fucking dishonest
ewes need to be and how fucking ignorant ewes Kantian sheeple are of
Rand.

Fuck off ewe despeate knuckle-dragging commie cunt.

Michael Gordge
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