Philosophy has failed in a real, practical way, to clarify and, where
need be, to counter the pervasive claims of clinical psychiatry, a
practice whose judgements are, today, accepted by default.

A number of concerns need re-investigating or philosophical, radical
overhauling:

1. The idea that illness and diagnosis is 'found' and not negotiated.
2. The circularity of the claim that 'disorder' shows itself.
3. The causal relationship between brain and behaviour vs the idea that
the relationship is a cluster of normative associations.
4. Cultural pressure on clinical practice and diagnosis.
5. The influence of pervasive materialist doctrine on the clinical
world-view.
6. The restrictions placed on knowledge and practice by the 'illness'
medical model of human experience.
7. The ethnocentric moral stance taken toward human experience by
westernised industrial countries, viz science and religion.

Some of these are related, such as 4) 5) and 7) etc.

On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 19:35:51 +0100, J Jones
aol.com> wrote:

Oh, damn, you've said something important that I strongly agree
with! That means I'm going to have to think hard, and learn to
express myself. Damn, damn, damn! :-)

I was really hoping not to have to debate this topic, not because
it isn't important, but because it is so important.

Please somebody say something silly, so that we can have a loud,
distracting shouting match, instead of a demanding debate! ;-)

I'm not sure what you mean here.

Again, can you expand on this?

I have often wondered why people and states rely on psychiatry in
order to cure illnesses or improve lives. It has often failed. Why
not try to improve our lives with philosophy instead? There's a book
called "Philosophy Practice: An Alternative to Counseling and
Psychotherapy". I haven't read it, but the title is intertesting.
Has anyone heard of a purely philosophical counselor, as opposed to a
psychological counselor? There are different forms of psychological
counseling (jungian, cognitive therapy. etc.) however they alll
besmirk of psychology in some way. There's such a thing as
antipsychiaty (www.antipsychiatry.org) but the Curch of Scientology at
aleast in word takes a slightly different approach and is totally
opposed to psychiatry, psychology, psychological counseling in the...

On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 15:09:27 -0700 (PDT), C3 aol.com> wrote:

Yes, I've heard of precisely that. Someone posted about it in
alt.suicide.holiday; I'll see if I can dig up some references.

At the moment, all I can find is where I did Google searches
for the words and counseling>. (I recall it was necessary to search for both of
these spellings, separately.)

On Apr 11, 2:35 pm, J Jones aol.com> wrote:

If an illness has an effect on the persons quality of life and an
identified chemical acts to improve the illness and persons quality of
life then what is the problem?

If the person doesn't find that it improves their quality of life then
they can stop taking that chemical.

In fact if anything, millions of people go untreated because of the
stigma's and unwillingness to deal with their illness due to their
cultural heritage.

How many people have elderly parents what refuse to do anything about
an illness and sit at home suffering?

What about Alzheimer's? Is that fiction?

The British are notorious for putting up with suffering and not doing
anything about it. Preaching to your choir?

You'll eat Tesco's cake, smoke pot, drink beer and pump your head with
all other kinds of crap so whats the problem? Reading a really
depressing book as killed many people. Breaking up from a relationship
has killed millions. Driving cars kills millions. Etc, etc, etc, etc.

On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 23:50:27 -0700 (PDT), turtoni
fastmail.net> wrote:

"If ..."

Often false.

True. My own father is a case in point.

On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 19:35:51 +0100, J Jones wrote:

Maybe not.
=========================================
Philosophy is the discipline concerned with questions of how one should
live (ethics); what sorts of things exist and what are their essential
natures (metaphysics); what counts as genuine knowledge (epistemology);
and what are the correct principles of reasoning (logic).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy
===========================================

Philosophy, then, is something lived not only studied. Cultures, for
instance, have philosophy. Sciences have philosophy. The question really
should be, has clinical psychiatry failed?

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 12:39:48 +0000, ZerkonX X.net> wrote:

A prior question is: what exactly is clinical psychiatry trying
to do?

re: what's philosophical about the subject matter?

Imho, as a "subjectivist," I (albeit simplistically) perceive:

Dr. Fraud (if you hate him) or Dr. Freud (if you accept his insights)
is the antithesis of my forebearers' Judaism and others.

It's both openly & "unconsciuosly" communicated that F is the
nemesis, devil, pervert, deviate, anti-christ and subversive to what
traditional good and godly civilization holds dear.

Dr. Carl Jung, the major rival guru or anti-Freudian school of their
day, was apparently celebrated & approved by the medico, politico and
religio establishmenst & authorities.

Because what Freud "philosophizes" as human reality is indeed shocking
to this very day of "decay"/excess

Wake-up and pisss, the world is still on fire, because today's
Talibanism seemingly represents that regressive, reactionary pre-Freud
ideal