On Aug 17, 11:47Â am, C3
aol.com> wrote:> On Aug 16, 5:57 pm, "bigflet...@
gmail.com"
gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
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>>> On Aug 17, 10:53 am, C3
aol.com> wrote:>
>>> Would you rather prevent evil or pray for a change of heart in
>>> evildoers? Some Christians, especially Roman Catholics, are willing
>>> to suffer quite a bit (even to the point of martyrdom) to show intent
>>> in evildoers or to pray for a change of heart in such people. Other
>>> people, often secularists, simply want to stop bad things from
>>> happening and could care less what's in a person's heart. Which is
>>> important to you and why?
>
>>> One problem with simply preventing evil is that it's often done with
>>> deterrant or force, and if that force is removed or can't be held,
>>> evil people go right back to performing evil. Innocent people can also
>>> be caught in the trap. You either end up with a system that is lax,
>>> and evildoers get away, or that is too strict and innocent people are
>>> wrongly punished.
>
>>> C3
>
>> Judge, judge ,judge. How can a 'master' be understood when the basic
>> dictates are not followed?
>
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> Are you accusing me of judging? Â What about our judicial system? Â It's
> composed by judges.
They have a license to practice.
Interesting how you associate observation with accusation.
> What I'm referring to more is helping people who are caught in sin to
> find their way out of it, not judging them.
Sin? Thats not a judgmennt? What do you make of the biblical statement
"vengence is mine" sayeth the lord, or "as ye sow, so shall ye reap".
The answer is 'hidden' in the statement. "judge not or you shall be
judged".
>Â Like if I hated blacks,
> would you force me into liking them (once the force is removed I might
> feel resentful and go right back to hating them even more) or would
> you pray for me to have a change of heart or thinking?.
Such questions indicate the need for religious guidance, for anyone
who reads this in judgment of C3.
This is where the 'beseechers' hit the wall, and the core of what Im
saying. You 'believe' in an all powerful God and yet you are arrogant
to suggest you know what 'should be happening'
>It's kind of
> like that quote, "You can give a person fish, but it's better to teach
> them how to fish."
I suppose that would also apply to 'long line fishing'.
That was the motive of religionists who 'rationalised' their way into
the Brazillian jungle, and showed the inhabitants how to get out of
harmony with the laws of nature.
>Â A change of heart can go a lot further than
> instead resorting to controlling a person's bad actions through force
> or threat. Â In the realm of religion, some people follow God's law
> because they're afraid of punishment, whereas others follow it because
> they believe in their heart it's the right thing to do.
Guess who taught the Indians to fear repercussions of a vengeful God.
At the 'heart' of the matter, you are correct. A change of heart comes
about when a person has personal breakthrough. Remember Saul on the
road to Tarsus?.
He had the experience, and then judged what it meant to him.
Of course, he then decided to go and direct others, arrogantly
believing (judging) that only he was worthy of such epiphany.
>
> I love the idea of praying for a change of heart or thinking in people
> for their own benefit, but for practical purposes it can be very hard
> to get that change of heart, and preventative measures might need to
> be taken.
Praying for a change of heart? Of course you love it. Thats the point.
Problem is, that it is metaphysically , clearly understood, that such
action inteferes with a persons psyche.
"Forgive them for they know not what they do"....but thats ok. They
only learn by reaping and sowing.
You know what an individual needs, when they need it and how it should
be delivered? You obvioulsy dont have children of your own...:-).
>In the Bible, the Holy Ghost got a change of heart in Saul
> and he was christened Paul, today St. Paul.
Im glad you mentioned that. We are on the same page, with different
understandings. So, using your interpretation, you know what the "Holy
Ghost" should do?
You may have a point. If "it" had have turned Saul a few years
earlier, quite a lost of people would not have had to die at his
hands.
>Â The Grinch had a change
> of heart in "How the Grinch Stole Christmas" at the end of the film."
> Conversely, to force, coerce, manipulate, threaten a change of
> behavior (like terrorism situations) is less than ideal and often
> involves psychology or even psychiatry. Â Correctional Medical
> Institutes in the United States seem like a questionable way of
> dealing with bad actions or "deviant" behavior as it is often called.
All examples of judgment.
BOfL
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