"turtoni" fastmail.net> wrote in message
news:f7161580-8a6a-4b75-bbb5-100ebe33c4fb@n20g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...

I think you are a pretty good chap you know. You add a lot to this forum.
Of course, you think I'm a cad and we'll never agree, ha.

First, 'belief', in and of itself, I argue is a 'power of mind'...and
'empowerment of self' over..hmm...how should I say...over 'obstacles to our
BEing'. I argue we 'gravitate', like metal filings around a magnet, to
certain..hmm again...to certain 'virtue' I suppose is the good word. I
personally make no definitive demands of virtue, except to recognize it
appears to us as either a 'strength' or a 'goodness'...and in fact, must
meet some minimal 'sense' of either [a lot of 'good' men for example were
really just 'weak' in 'good's clothing; and of course, a lot of 'strong men'
have been monsters].

There...you have your 'breadcrumb' pathway through the forest. If you
follow the crumbs, eventually you arrive, "at Tupelo" [ha, a play on what
the Pope once said about 'all roads leading to Tupelo'...meaning of course,
that all searching eventually winds up with the discovery of God, one way or
another, as the ultimate source of virtue.

To put perspective on it, God will NOT exist until one Believes. But once
that belief is solidified, one discovers that God, having no definition, was
really a doorway to 'self'; a 'tool if you will [I like to see it that way
anyway], by which, we recreate ourselves [and our environment] in the vision
of how we sense 'good' from 'bad'. That 'nature' in us...that 'sense'...one
eventually understands as the 'creation' of not just something better...but
a reach for 'perfection' itself.

An escape? Some rationalists will want to define it as such. But the
subjective experience cannot be denied once obtained as 'something
wonderful'. "Meaning", one finds [I did anyway], is not something one
rationalizes this way or that, but is a BEing itself. And it becomes
abundant.

Heck of a lot better than Sir Fredericks 'empty' stories say what, LOL.
And if you followed any of this, you're a better man than I...hehe.

BTW, the chaos I was refering to was the discombobulation of FEAR. AS I've
gotten older, I've come to think there is a wide array of conscious state
among us. Who is sane? Who is insane? We set rules based more on behavior
than actual conscious state [always like to pick on Ted Bundy, quite the
dapper intellectual as most people saw him, until of course, he was
bludgeoning 30+ women to death]. We generally set a standard for 'insane'
when behavior becomes too outlandish; and I'm convinced 'FEAR' is what
really destroys us and makes us insane. With a belief in God, one can enter
the realms of the truely insane and still find solace and calm within...and
still behave quite sanely [ha, look at me; no one's locked me up yet, hehe].
God is most definitely a contra-device to FEAR. So, next time someone goes
nuts around here, remember to just call upon God in some way [especially if
you really do believe, ha], and like a life raft, they can find their way
out of FEAR's chaos. Fear is the real malady I'm convinced; that is what
makes people go mad. Isolation is a prime mover of FEAR. Of course, I'm
not necessarily talking about 'booger bear' fear of the type little kids
feel when the lights go out. More the kind of fear when becomes
disassociated with this world. Having gone through such 'disassociation' a
time or two myself, this is why I know what most see as 'this world' is
based mostly [if not all] on illusions.

That's why I think this Metzinger is dangerous [and those like him]. I'm
lucky. I've know good parents and a lot of love in my life [which I'd like
to find some way to pass on in return to help]. But for those without good
foundations to call upon...wow...I can't tell you how deep FEAR can be when
our illusions are taken away from us. Science I'm afraid, is not enough.

One more thought before I retreat again; the answer to 'who is sane and who
is insane' came to me while realizing we are 'all' insane. Then 'saneness'
simply becomes a matter of choice. Christ, as I see it anyway, is our
standard of sanity in this world. But...just a choice. But what else is
there? Professor Doodlebarker in Physics 401? We all make choices by the
'virtue' we see.