IMO qualia are representational illusions. Effected by "indirection" among
low level brain structures. There is no magic there, only a bunch of well organized,
evolved neurons. Just as there is no magic in your computer, there is no
magic in your head.

I also hold that life, including human life is an epiphenomena.
Of course our hubris makes us demand more of the situation
than that. Thus we confabulate many stories to meet that demand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

See (for links):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epiphenomenalism
In philosophy of mind, epiphenomenalism, also known as 'Type-E Dualism' is a view according to which some or all mental states are
mere epiphenomena...

On Jun 29, 9:46 pm, Sir Frederick fuzzysys.com> wrote:

Since qualia, or the subjective sense or feeling of existing, results
from and necessarily requires an ongoing process and other such forms
or stabilities use changes as components and transient unit building
block, what differentiates the form of qualia from the form of any
other stability through changes? Therefore subjectivity is the genuine
article and not an illusion.

On Jun 30, 12:46 am, Sir Frederick fuzzysys.com> wrote:

what do you mean by magic? "free will"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-will#In_science

"Many, but not all, arguments for or against free will make an
assumption about the truth or falsehood of determinism. The scientific
method holds out the promise of being able to turn such assumptions
into fact. However, such facts would still need to be combined with
philosophical considerations in order to amount to an argument for or
against free will. For instance, if compatibilism is true, the truth
of determinism would have no effect on the question of the existence
of free will. On the other hand, a proof of determinism in conjunction
with an argument for incompatibilism would add up to an argument
against free will.

On Jun 30, 6:05 am, turtoni fastmail.net> wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 02:43:20 -0700 (PDT), Paul Grieg yahoo.com> wrote:

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:55:49 -0700, Immortalist wrote:

" this hammer is 300 years old"

"Really? It looks brand new"

"Well, the head has been replaced five times and the handle 10"

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:46:48 -0700, Sir Frederick wrote:

This is magic enough for me. Seems like saying, there is nothing magic
about the universe, just a bunch of stars, planets and stuff.

By say 'only a bunch of well organized, evolved neurons' aren't you
presuming that everything about this is known or can be known?

It is thought that the brain is made up of the same physical essentials
as the stars as everything else is... this is not 'magic' or, stuff for
wonderment and awe?

Maybe 'How things seem' is more a personal viewpoint.

On Jun 30, 5:59 am, Sir Frederick fuzzysys.com> wrote:

On Jul 1, 7:53 am, turtoni fastmail.net> wrote:

On Jul 1, 5:23 am, Paul Grieg yahoo.com> wrote: