Re: "Niceness," initiative, and relationships
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Re: "Niceness," initiative, and relationships         

Group: alt.philosophy · Group Profile
Author: Immortalist
Date: Mar 23, 2008 21:26

On Mar 23, 7:14 pm, ibsham...@gmail.com wrote:
> A month ago, a friend from Russia contacted me and told me that she
> had been in love with me. But because she was a "nice girl" and did
> not want to appear too forward, she never told me about her feelings
> for me, and I never knew about them until now.
>
> She was at the top of the class, along with me, a Korean girl, and a
> tall beautiful blonde named Katya. The Korean girl is now an editor
> for an international magazine; Katya is an interior decorator and had
> a honeymoon in Egypt. My friend, and I, are both married. Me, to a
> wonderful woman; she, to a brute. In her second letter, she told me
> that her husband had beaten her badly for contacting me, and that she
> could not write to me any longer.
>
> In 1995, on a Usenet forum alt.romance, a woman named Kay was writing
> that she was in love with me. We had a romance. Another girl wrote me
> to say that Kay was not "a nice girl" because "nice girls" do not act
> that way. The woman who said that is my age, and although she is
> legant, accomplished, hard-working, financially secure, smart,
> compassionate, ethical, and drop-dead gorgeous, she is still single.
>
> A long time ago, a kid was writing that women should "share in the
> askout." He got attacked for that by people claiming that his saying
> so was due to his lack of social skills. But that's not the issue here
> at all. If the woman does not ask a man out, then she does not get the
> man that she wants. And then she either gets a man whom she does not
> want, who treats her like rubbish, or she does not get to be with a
> man at all.
>
> This is an outrage. For people who have such great things to offer
> others, to have such tragic existence, is a huge waste of human
> potential as well as a great and unnecessary wrong. The false concepts
> of what makes a person "nice" hurt mostly those who abide
> such concepts, while denying them the right to what they legitimately
> may seek - and the right for others to benefit from what they have to
> offer. Not only do they lose, bigtime, but so do others as well -
> anyone who would appreciate them and respect them. Instead they
> become food source, cannon fodder, punching bags, for those who not
> only have no intention of practicing similar ethics in their own
> lives, but also want to portray them as weak and stupid for having
> such considerations.
>
> Nobody should be taught that taking initiative or making one's
> interests known is incompatible with being a good human being. It is
> to people who do that that is owed all improvement in history of
> mankind, and anything that militates against that seeks to create a
> passive population that is bludgeoned, manipulated, controlled and
> deceived. The false concepts of what makes for a "nice" person injure
> those who have these concepts, while empowering only the unscrupulous.
> And for as long as this perversion of ethics is aught on a large
> scale, both the "nice guys" and the "nice women" will continue to live
> tragic existence, while those who do not have such scruples run things
> and laugh at them.
>
> Ilya Shambathttp://www.myspace.com/ibshambathttp://ibshambat7.blogspot.com

Maybe all that applies to the particular case but it is probably much
more complex than that. Since your pointing out "levelling" in
communication science it should be noted that the outcome of levelling
can be good or bad, not just good like your post claims.

Levelling: Effective communication can only occur when both parties
know all the relevant information (thoughts, feeling and facts). It is
wrong to expect others to know what is on our minds. Misunderstanding
and conflict commonly arise because one party does not know important
information. Levelling means giving the other person information about
your thoughts and feelings, rather than expecting her or him to read
your mind. It is also important to regularly check that the other
person has understood what it is you are saying. Essentially, this
skill is the development of a level playing field in all interpersonal
interactions.

Effective Communication:
http://esvc000144.wic027u.server-web.com/pdfs/Effective%%20Communications.pdf

In cognitive therapy not levelling can promote alot of;

4) Mind Reading

When you mind read you make snap judgments about others by assuming
what they are thinking or why they are behaving in a certain way:
"He's just acting that way because he's jealous..., she's only staying
with you for your money..., he thinks I'm faking and that I'm not
really in that much pain..., she thinks that just because I'm not in a
wheel chair I should be able to do as much work as I used to." There
may not be any evidence for these statements, but you just assume that
it is so. In most instances, mind readers make assumptions about how
other people are feeling and what motivates them. For example, if your
doctor refers you to a psychologist you may conclude, "(a) he thinks
I'm crazy, (b) he thinks the pain is all in my head, (c), he thinks
I'm ready to go off the deep end, (d) he's tired of dealing with me
and is just trying to get rid of me, (e) he thinks the psychologist
can help me learn to better cope with the pain."

As a mind reader, you also make assumptions about how people are
reacting to things around them, particularly how they are reacting to
you. "She looks down on me because I served in Vietnam..., He thinks
I'm an alcoholic because I drank too much last weekend..., She thinks
I'm a bad father because I yelled at the kids..." These assumptions
are usually untested. They are born of intuition, hunches, vague
misgivings, or one or two past experiences, but they are nevertheless
believed as fact.

Mind reading often involves a process called projection. You imagine
that people feel the same way you do and react to things the same way
you do. Therefore, you don't watch or listen closely enough to notice
that they are actually different. If you get angry when someone is
late, you imagine everyone acts that way. If you are hypersensitive to
rejection, you expect most people to feel the same. If you are very
judgmental about particular habits and traits, you assume others share
your belief. Mind readers jump to conclusions that are true for them,
without checking whether they are true for the other person.

When you frequently mind read in negative ways, you tend to overreact
emotionally. In other words, your emotions are not triggered by actual
facts but rather by your erroneous assumptions about other people.

Key Issues with Mind Reading:
Assuming you know what others are thinking and feeling

Alternative (Balanced) Ways of Thinking:
Check it out
Evidence for conclusion?
Alternative interpretations?

Mind reading is the tendency to make inferences (guesses) about how
people feel and think. In the long run, you are probably better off
making no inferences about people at all. Either believe what they
tell you or hold no belief at all until some conclusive evidence comes
your way. Treat all of your notions about people as hypotheses to be
tested and checked out by asking them. If you lack direct information
from the person involved, but have other evidence, evaluate your
conclusion using the three column technique above.

http://www.arachnoiditis.info/website_captures/chronicpainhandbook/Cognitive%%20Therapy...

http://www.google.com/search?q=stinkin+thinkin
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