> Robert Epstein wrote:
>

>> Roy Jose Lorr wrote:
>>

>>> Robert Epstein wrote:
>>>

>>>> Roy Jose Lorr wrote:
>>>>

>>>>> Robert Epstein wrote:
>>>>>

>>>>>> Roy Jose Lorr wrote:
>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Robert Epstein wrote:
>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Awaken21 wrote:
>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 1:41 pm, panamfl...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 7:54 am, Awaken21 gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 4:15 am, Michael Gray newsguy.com> wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> We'vee been waiting for more than 60,000 years for religion to
>>>>>>>>>>>> deliver, and what so far?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Only negatives, and suppression of reality.

>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> Well for me it saved my life and I'm less than 50 years old.

>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> Since modern ATHEISTIC science sprang up after say, 1600, it
>>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>> delivered reliably and consistently.

>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, science tells me that religion does one of two things to a
>>>>>>>>>>> person, it makes them happier and opens up their minds or it
>>>>>>>>>>> has no
>>>>>>>>>>> effect on their happiness and closes their minds.

>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> I know where I'd put my money.

>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> On what works for you? Interesting you think other's who are
>>>>>>>>>>> doing the
>>>>>>>>>>> same are idiots.

>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> And phucking woo-woos like you can give it all to a priest
>>>>>>>>>>>> who will
>>>>>>>>>>>> piss it up against a wall, whilst laughing at your sheer
>>>>>>>>>>>> gullibility!

>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> Ewwww, cynicsm. You know if you don't believe sincerity
>>>>>>>>>>> exists you'll
>>>>>>>>>>> end up living a reality where that is true.

>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sincerity exists where the skeptical are allowed to measure and
>>>>>>>>>> verify.

>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Interesting belief. Seems to me sincerity exists without need of
>>>>>>>>> verification, outside of my own ability to sense my own state
>>>>>>>>> of mind.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> Many scientists are also
>>>>>>>>>>> religious, where does that leave the priests of science which
>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>> believe in as a religion?

>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Calling science a religion shows that you know nothing about
>>>>>>>>>> either.
>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Your reading comprehension is a little lacking. I did not say
>>>>>>>>> science
>>>>>>>>> was religion, I said expecting it to answer everyting is
>>>>>>>>> approaching
>>>>>>>>> science in the same way religious zealots approach their religion.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> A shame science couldn't teach me how to be
>>>>>>>>>>> a happy balanced person,

>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Your emotional weaknesses are not the responsibility of the
>>>>>>>>>> scientific
>>>>>>>>>> method.

>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Exactly. Science does not have all the answers for human
>>>>>>>>> beings. Good
>>>>>>>>> tool within it's scope.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> but then christianity couldn't do that for me
>>>>>>>>>>> either. Seeking through reason of result can be a tedious thing.

>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Most of the happy people I know do not "seek" anything other than
>>>>>>>>>> their lover's affection, their child's smile, and a really
>>>>>>>>>> good meal.
>>>>>>>>>> I think most people make life much more difficult than it
>>>>>>>>>> needs to be.
>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes, most people seek fullfillment in their lives outside of
>>>>>>>>> science,
>>>>>>>>> including scientists.
>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> quite a few of them join string quartets.

>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The religion of science makes music a science. Everything is
>>>>>>> science to the science supplicant. Materialism is a faith based
>>>>>>> religious concept.

>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You seem prejudiced. The scientists I recall hearing about who
>>>>>> play music use it as a break from thinking about science, not
>>>>>> another example of science. They're not computers, they're people.

>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I too play music and of course I'm also prejudiced. Prejudice is a
>>>>> natural defense mechanism that comes with the territory of being
>>>>> human. Anyone claiming not to be prejudiced is fibbing.
>>>>>
>>>>> To those indoctrinated in the church of science everything must fit
>>>>> into the materialist scheme, else the cult would naturally collapse
>>>>> in on itself. What the materialist refuses to recognize is that
>>>>> reverence for man made constructs is subject to the same methods of
>>>>> deconstruction as are all other human reasoned biases. When
>>>>> deciding on a preference for an ultimate authority there are only
>>>>> two choices: God or self. That's just the way it works.

>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The above has nothing to do with music. Scientists are not so
>>>> robot-like that they "think" about materialism or anything else
>>>> while they are playing. Perhaps you have never met a real
>>>> scientist, or heard one play the violin. :)

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I've met and played with all sorts of people, including scientists
>>> who play music both for profession and recreation. I can see you
>>> lack more than a bystander's passing awareness of music. You may
>>> find it useful to talk with a few of the musical scientists you're
>>> acquainted with to get a take on their perceptions of music.

>>
>>
>>
>> I am a professionally trained musician who plays piano, guitar,
>> woodwinds and with singing background in both pop/rock/folk and legit
>> show/classical music.

>
>
> Professionally trained by whom, Lester Lanin, Ringo Starr, Goggi Grant?
> The studios are chock full of music piddling dilettantes who can't
> play Jazz. My local is 802, what's yours?

> Looks like you have only a bystander's
>

>> acquaintance with intelligence.

>
>
> Brilliant.