On Jun 28, 12:18Â pm, turtoni
fastmail.net> wrote:> On Jun 27, 8:58Â pm, "bigflet...@
gmail.com"
gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>> On Jun 28, 2:33Â am, turtoni
fastmail.net> wrote:>
>>> On Jun 27, 2:44Â am, "bigflet...@
gmail.com"
gmail.com>
>>> wrote:>
>>>> On Jun 27, 2:40Â pm, turtoni
fastmail.net> wrote:>
>>>>> As established by Frank Herbert, following the defeat of the thinking
>>>>> machines by humanity in the Butlerian Jihad, it was forbidden to
>>>>> create sentient machines. The Mentat discipline was developed as a
>>>>> replacement for computerized calculation, just as the Bene Gesserit
>>>>> and the Spacing Guild took on functions previously provided by
>>>>> thinking machines. For thousands of years, society considered Mentats
>>>>> the embodiment of logic and reason.
>
>>>>> Unlike computers, however, Mentats are not simply calculators.
>>>>> Instead, the exceptional cognitive abilities of memory and perception
>>>>> are the foundations for supra-logical hypothesizing. Mentats are able
>>>>> to sift large volumes of data and devise concise analyses in a process
>>>>> that goes far beyond logical deduction: Mentats cultivate "the naïve
>>>>> mind", the mind without preconception or prejudice, similar to the
>>>>> contemporary practice of Zen, that can extract the essential patterns
>>>>> or logic of data, and deliver useful conclusions with varying degrees
>>>>> of certainty. They are not limited to formulating syllogisms; they are
>>>>> the supreme counselors of the Dune universe, filling roles as menial
>>>>> as archivists and clerks, or as grand as advisors to Emperors.
>
>>>>> A Mentat's capabilities can be greatly increased by taking sapho
>>>>> juice, but using it leads to addiction. Sapho is extracted from the
>>>>> root of the Ecaz tree and its use doubles or even triples the Mentat's
>>>>> already immense processing power. However, repeated use leaves a
>>>>> permanent "cranberry-colored stain" on the user's lips.
>
>>>>> Being a Mentat can be a profession in itself, or the discipline can be
>>>>> added to other roles. Only a small number of people have the ability
>>>>> to be a Mentat; thus, those with the discipline are prized in whatever
>>>>> role they choose. There are also varying degrees of ability. In Dune,
>>>>> Thufir Hawat is considered to be one of the best mentats known at the
>>>>> time. Paul Atreides is a Mentat duke (and later emperor) in Dune, and
>>>>> in Heretics of Dune and Chapterhouse Dune, Miles Teg is a Mentat
>>>>> bashar (or general) and the most formidable military commander in the
>>>>> known universe. In Dune Messiah, Duncan Idaho is recreated as a ghola,
>>>>> and trained as both a Mentat and as a Zensunni philosopher; he then
>>>>> serves Paul as the House Weapons Master. In Children of Dune, he
>>>>> marries the Regent, Paul's sister Alia, but is then instrumental in
>>>>> protecting the royal heirs from her, demonstrating that Mentats are
>>>>> rarely simply disinterested observers and counselors.
>
>>>>> It is also possible to vary the discipline: In Dune, the Tleilaxu
>>>>> create 'twisted Mentats' for the Baron Vladimir Harkonnen (Piter de
>>>>> Vries being the most notable example). These are sociopathic Mentats
>>>>> free from the usual constraints of human morality or instinctual
>>>>> considerations (de Vries is, among other things, a sadist and acts as
>>>>> torturer for the Baron). In Heretics of Dune the Duncan ghola supplied
>>>>> to the Bene Gesserit by the Tleilaxu has been altered in many subtle
>>>>> and hidden ways by the Tleilaxu, including the addition of submerged
>>>>> Mentat abilities.
>
>>>>> In God Emperor of Dune, Leto II outlaws the order and crushes any
>>>>> renegade training schools he finds. Unlike his execution of historians
>>>>> for the purpose of controlling his legacy and symbolism, Leto never
>>>>> explicitly mentions why he suppresses Mentats, leaving the reader to
>>>>> conclude that it simply plays a role in his larger purpose of
>>>>> oppressing humanity in order to create his Golden Path. The art is not
>>>>> eliminated, however, surviving through underground schools; notably,
>>>>> the Bene Gesserit preserve the art, assuming that Leto knows of this
>>>>> (through his prescience) and approves.
>
>>>>> Later, in Chapterhouse Dune, the Duncan ghola speaks to the Bene
>>>>> Gesserit Reverend Mother Bellonda and recalls his past incarnation
>>>>> from the time of Leto II:
>
>>>>> I went to Wallach IX at the Tyrant's command ... My orders were to
>>>>> suppress the Mentat school you thought you had hidden there ... I, a
>>>>> Mentat, forced to suppress a school that trained people the way I was
>>>>> trained. I knew why he ordered it, of course, and so do you.
>
>
>>>> Many variations on a theme.
>
>>>> Skywalked vs Darth was an excellent example.
>
>>>> Derren Brown has mastered the art of such suggestion.
>>>> He can send marshal arts students into severe pain with a sweep of his
>>>> hand,(even with no visual contact) and also collect large amounts of
>>>> money from bookmakers when producing a losing ticket.
>
>>>> Id love to see some academic experiments on him.
>
>>>> BOfL
>
>>> I've brought up NLP on a number of occasions in this newsgroup.
>
>>> "In a Daily Telegraph article published in 2003 Simon Singh criticised
>>> Brown's early TV appearances, arguing that he presented standard magic
>>> and mentalism effects - such as the classic Ten Card Poker Deal trick
>>> - as genuine psychological manipulation.[9] On Brown's television and
>>> live shows he often appears to show the audience how a particular
>>> effect was created—claiming to use subliminal imagery, body language
>>> reading and so on. Singh's suggestion is that these explanations are
>>> dishonest. Furthermore, Singh took exception to the programme's
>>> website being categorised under Channel 4's "Science" section. The
>>> minisite was moved to Entertainment for later series.
>
>>> In his book Tricks of the Mind, Brown writes, "I am often dishonest in
>>> my techniques, but always honest about my dishonesty. As I say in each
>>> show, 'I mix magic, suggestion, psychology, misdirection and
>>> showmanship'. I happily admit cheating, as it's all part of the game.
>>> I hope some of the fun for the viewer comes from not knowing what's
>>> real and what isn't. I am an entertainer first and foremost, and I am
>>> careful not to cross any moral line that would take me into
>>> manipulating people's real-life decisions or belief systems."
>
>>> Brown claims he has never used actors or stooges in his work. In
>>> Tricks of the Mind he offers the defence that such a ploy is
>>> "artistically repugnant and simply unnecessary"; furthermore, he
>>> "would not want any participant to watch the [TV] show when it airs
>>> and see a different or radically re-edited version of what he
>>> understood to have happened".[10] Certainly, during stage
>>> performances, Brown chooses participants at random by throwing an
>>> object (a frisbee or stuffed animal) to the audience and having them
>>> pass it around; whoever ends up with the object joins him on stage.
>>> [11]
>
>>> In response to the accusation that he unfairly claims to be using NLP
>>> whenever he performs, Brown writes "The truth is I have never
>>> mentioned it". Brown does have an off-stage curiosity about the
>>> system, and discusses it in the larger context of hypnotism and
>>> suggestion."
>
>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>
>> I have no doubt, he is a serious and totally honest student, and
>> extremely entertaining.
>
>> I particularly liked the examples where he venturd into the realm of
>> the 'so called' gurus and healers, and duplicated their effects, only
>> to be invited to their organisations.
>
>> I was well into my path, when I came across a number of NLP's
>> including one (if not 'the') innovators of the rainbow techniques and
>> associated para-phenalia. His name was 'Everett or similar.
>
>> I also came across many of the Werner Erhart and later Anthony
>> Robbins's 'students'.
>
>> It was then I developed a deeper understanding of the difference
>> between converging and diverging stages of ones development, and why
>> the sheep and shepherds have mutual needs.
>
>> BOfL
>
> nicely backpedaled.
>
> you need to learn your place..- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Spoken like a true groupie.
Backpedaled?
No need to.
BOfL
