On Jun 28, 2:33Â am, turtoni
fastmail.net> wrote:> On Jun 27, 2:44Â am, "bigflet...@
gmail.com"
gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>> On Jun 27, 2:40Â pm, turtoni
fastmail.net> wrote:>
>>> As established by Frank Herbert, following the defeat of the thinking
>>> machines by humanity in the Butlerian Jihad, it was forbidden to
>>> create sentient machines. The Mentat discipline was developed as a
>>> replacement for computerized calculation, just as the Bene Gesserit
>>> and the Spacing Guild took on functions previously provided by
>>> thinking machines. For thousands of years, society considered Mentats
>>> the embodiment of logic and reason.
>
>>> Unlike computers, however, Mentats are not simply calculators.
>>> Instead, the exceptional cognitive abilities of memory and perception
>>> are the foundations for supra-logical hypothesizing. Mentats are able
>>> to sift large volumes of data and devise concise analyses in a process
>>> that goes far beyond logical deduction: Mentats cultivate "the naïve
>>> mind", the mind without preconception or prejudice, similar to the
>>> contemporary practice of Zen, that can extract the essential patterns
>>> or logic of data, and deliver useful conclusions with varying degrees
>>> of certainty. They are not limited to formulating syllogisms; they are
>>> the supreme counselors of the Dune universe, filling roles as menial
>>> as archivists and clerks, or as grand as advisors to Emperors.
>
>>> A Mentat's capabilities can be greatly increased by taking sapho
>>> juice, but using it leads to addiction. Sapho is extracted from the
>>> root of the Ecaz tree and its use doubles or even triples the Mentat's
>>> already immense processing power. However, repeated use leaves a
>>> permanent "cranberry-colored stain" on the user's lips.
>
>>> Being a Mentat can be a profession in itself, or the discipline can be
>>> added to other roles. Only a small number of people have the ability
>>> to be a Mentat; thus, those with the discipline are prized in whatever
>>> role they choose. There are also varying degrees of ability. In Dune,
>>> Thufir Hawat is considered to be one of the best mentats known at the
>>> time. Paul Atreides is a Mentat duke (and later emperor) in Dune, and
>>> in Heretics of Dune and Chapterhouse Dune, Miles Teg is a Mentat
>>> bashar (or general) and the most formidable military commander in the
>>> known universe. In Dune Messiah, Duncan Idaho is recreated as a ghola,
>>> and trained as both a Mentat and as a Zensunni philosopher; he then
>>> serves Paul as the House Weapons Master. In Children of Dune, he
>>> marries the Regent, Paul's sister Alia, but is then instrumental in
>>> protecting the royal heirs from her, demonstrating that Mentats are
>>> rarely simply disinterested observers and counselors.
>
>>> It is also possible to vary the discipline: In Dune, the Tleilaxu
>>> create 'twisted Mentats' for the Baron Vladimir Harkonnen (Piter de
>>> Vries being the most notable example). These are sociopathic Mentats
>>> free from the usual constraints of human morality or instinctual
>>> considerations (de Vries is, among other things, a sadist and acts as
>>> torturer for the Baron). In Heretics of Dune the Duncan ghola supplied
>>> to the Bene Gesserit by the Tleilaxu has been altered in many subtle
>>> and hidden ways by the Tleilaxu, including the addition of submerged
>>> Mentat abilities.
>
>>> In God Emperor of Dune, Leto II outlaws the order and crushes any
>>> renegade training schools he finds. Unlike his execution of historians
>>> for the purpose of controlling his legacy and symbolism, Leto never
>>> explicitly mentions why he suppresses Mentats, leaving the reader to
>>> conclude that it simply plays a role in his larger purpose of
>>> oppressing humanity in order to create his Golden Path. The art is not
>>> eliminated, however, surviving through underground schools; notably,
>>> the Bene Gesserit preserve the art, assuming that Leto knows of this
>>> (through his prescience) and approves.
>
>>> Later, in Chapterhouse Dune, the Duncan ghola speaks to the Bene
>>> Gesserit Reverend Mother Bellonda and recalls his past incarnation
>>> from the time of Leto II:
>
>>> I went to Wallach IX at the Tyrant's command ... My orders were to
>>> suppress the Mentat school you thought you had hidden there ... I, a
>>> Mentat, forced to suppress a school that trained people the way I was
>>> trained. I knew why he ordered it, of course, and so do you.
>
>
>> Many variations on a theme.
>
>> Skywalked vs Darth was an excellent example.
>
>> Derren Brown has mastered the art of such suggestion.
>> He can send marshal arts students into severe pain with a sweep of his
>> hand,(even with no visual contact) and also collect large amounts of
>> money from bookmakers when producing a losing ticket.
>
>> Id love to see some academic experiments on him.
>
>> BOfL
>
> I've brought up NLP on a number of occasions in this newsgroup.
>
> "In a Daily Telegraph article published in 2003 Simon Singh criticised
> Brown's early TV appearances, arguing that he presented standard magic
> and mentalism effects - such as the classic Ten Card Poker Deal trick
> - as genuine psychological manipulation.[9] On Brown's television and
> live shows he often appears to show the audience how a particular
> effect was created—claiming to use subliminal imagery, body language
> reading and so on. Singh's suggestion is that these explanations are
> dishonest. Furthermore, Singh took exception to the programme's
> website being categorised under Channel 4's "Science" section. The
> minisite was moved to Entertainment for later series.
>
> In his book Tricks of the Mind, Brown writes, "I am often dishonest in
> my techniques, but always honest about my dishonesty. As I say in each
> show, 'I mix magic, suggestion, psychology, misdirection and
> showmanship'. I happily admit cheating, as it's all part of the game.
> I hope some of the fun for the viewer comes from not knowing what's
> real and what isn't. I am an entertainer first and foremost, and I am
> careful not to cross any moral line that would take me into
> manipulating people's real-life decisions or belief systems."
>
> Brown claims he has never used actors or stooges in his work. In
> Tricks of the Mind he offers the defence that such a ploy is
> "artistically repugnant and simply unnecessary"; furthermore, he
> "would not want any participant to watch the [TV] show when it airs
> and see a different or radically re-edited version of what he
> understood to have happened".[10] Certainly, during stage
> performances, Brown chooses participants at random by throwing an
> object (a frisbee or stuffed animal) to the audience and having them
> pass it around; whoever ends up with the object joins him on stage.
> [11]
>
> In response to the accusation that he unfairly claims to be using NLP
> whenever he performs, Brown writes "The truth is I have never
> mentioned it". Brown does have an off-stage curiosity about the
> system, and discusses it in the larger context of hypnotism and
> suggestion."
>
>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derren_Brown- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I have no doubt, he is a serious and totally honest student, and
extremely entertaining.
I particularly liked the examples where he venturd into the realm of
the 'so called' gurus and healers, and duplicated their effects, only
to be invited to their organisations.
I was well into my path, when I came across a number of NLP's
including one (if not 'the') innovators of the rainbow techniques and
associated para-phenalia. His name was 'Everett or similar.
I also came across many of the Werner Erhart and later Anthony
Robbins's 'students'.
It was then I developed a deeper understanding of the difference
between converging and diverging stages of ones development, and why
the sheep and shepherds have mutual needs.
BOfL
