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Author: Jerry KrausJerry Kraus Date: Jun 25, 2008 10:31
I am not a Creationist. I don't believe in a personal God, and I
don't think there was "intelligent design" in the way the Universe was
"created", if it was created. To me, the Universe looks like one hell
of a mess. I'm rather fond of Stendahl's line "God's only excuse is
that he doesn't exist". Nevertheless, I do believe that the
criticisms given by creationists of the Theory of Evolution, and of
Darwinism in general, have their uses, and have some validity.
Firstly, we CANNOT do an experiment which proves that men can evolve
from apes. Sorry, just can't be done. Therefore, we DO NOT KNOW that
men are indeed descended from apes. No matter how much circumstantial
evidence consistent with this concept we may have, we do not KNOW it
in the same sense that we know that Newton's Laws of Motion hold true
under normal circumstances in daily life. And the tendancy of
scientists to claim that we do KNOW it in the same sense that we know
Newton's Laws to be true, suggests to me some problems in the way
modern scientists develop and criticize their theories, in general.
It suggests some tendancy for modern scientists to substitute rhetoric
for logic.
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Author: tgtg Date: Jun 25, 2008 10:41
On Jun 25, 1:31Â pm, Jerry Kraus yahoo.com> wrote:> I am not a Creationist. Â I don't believe in a personal God, and I
> don't think there was "intelligent design" in the way the Universe was
> "created", if it was created. Â To me, the Universe looks like one hell
> of a mess. Â I'm rather fond of Stendahl's line "God's only excuse is
> that he doesn't exist". Â Nevertheless, I do believe that the
> criticisms given by creationists of the Theory of Evolution, and of
> Darwinism in general, Â have their uses, and have some validity.
>
> Firstly, we CANNOT do an experiment which proves that men can evolve
> from apes. Â Sorry, just can't be done. Â Therefore, we DO NOT KNOW that
> men are indeed descended from apes. Â No matter how much circumstantial
> evidence consistent with this concept we may have, we do not KNOW it
> in the same sense that we know that Newton's Laws of Motion hold true
> under normal circumstances in daily life. Â And the tendancy of
> scientists to claim that we do KNOW it in the same sense that we know
> Newton's Laws to be true, suggests to me some problems in the way
> modern scientists develop and criticize their theories, in general.
> It suggests some tendancy for modern scientists to substitute rhetoric
> for logic. ...
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Author: Conspiracy of DovesConspiracy of Doves Date: Jun 25, 2008 10:51
On Jun 25, 1:31Â pm, Jerry Kraus yahoo.com> wrote:> I am not a Creationist. Â I don't believe in a personal God, and I
> don't think there was "intelligent design" in the way the Universe was
> "created", if it was created. Â To me, the Universe looks like one hell
> of a mess. Â I'm rather fond of Stendahl's line "God's only excuse is
> that he doesn't exist". Â Nevertheless, I do believe that the
> criticisms given by creationists of the Theory of Evolution, and of
> Darwinism in general, Â have their uses, and have some validity.
>
> Firstly, we CANNOT do an experiment which proves that men can evolve
> from apes. Â Sorry, just can't be done. Â Therefore, we DO NOT KNOW that
> men are indeed descended from apes. Â No matter how much circumstantial
> evidence consistent with this concept...
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Author: Jerry KrausJerry Kraus Date: Jun 25, 2008 10:52
On Jun 25, 12:41Â pm, tg earthlink.net> wrote:> On Jun 25, 1:31Â pm, Jerry Kraus yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>> I am not a Creationist. Â I don't believe in a personal God, and I
>> don't think there was "intelligent design" in the way the Universe was
>> "created", if it was created. Â To me, the Universe looks like one hell
>> of a mess. Â I'm rather fond of Stendahl's line "God's only excuse is
>> that he doesn't exist". Â Nevertheless, I do believe that the
>> criticisms given by creationists of the Theory of Evolution, and of
>> Darwinism in general, Â have their uses, and have some validity.
>
>> Firstly, we CANNOT do an experiment which proves that men can evolve
>> from apes. Â Sorry, just can't be done. Â Therefore, we DO NOT KNOW that
>> men are indeed descended from apes. Â No matter how much circumstantial
>> evidence consistent with this concept we may have, we do not KNOW it
>> in the same sense that we know that Newton's Laws of Motion hold true ...
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Author: Conspiracy of DovesConspiracy of Doves Date: Jun 25, 2008 10:57
On Jun 25, 1:52Â pm, Jerry Kraus yahoo.com> wrote:> On Jun 25, 12:41Â pm, tg earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>>> On Jun 25, 1:31Â pm, Jerry Kraus yahoo.com> wrote:>
>>> I am not a Creationist. Â I don't believe in a personal God, and I
>>> don't think there was "intelligent design" in the way the Universe was
>>> "created", if it was created. Â To me, the Universe looks like one hell
>>> of a mess. Â I'm rather fond of Stendahl's line "God's only excuse is
>>> that he doesn't exist". Â Nevertheless, I do believe that the
>>> criticisms given by creationists of the Theory of Evolution, and of
>>> Darwinism in general, Â have their uses, and have some validity.
>
>>> Firstly, we CANNOT do an experiment which proves that men can evolve
>>> from apes. Â Sorry, just can't be done. Â Therefore, we DO NOT KNOW that
>>> men are indeed descended from apes. Â No matter how much circumstantial
>>> evidence consistent with this concept we may have, we do not KNOW it
>>> in the same sense that we know that Newton's Laws of Motion hold true ...
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Author: Jerry KrausJerry Kraus Date: Jun 25, 2008 11:04
On Jun 25, 12:57Â pm, Conspiracy of Doves yahoo.com> wrote:> On Jun 25, 1:52Â pm, Jerry Kraus yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>> On Jun 25, 12:41Â pm, tg earthlink.net> wrote:>
>>> On Jun 25, 1:31Â pm, Jerry Kraus yahoo.com> wrote:>
>>>> I am not a Creationist. Â I don't believe in a personal God, and I
>>>> don't think there was "intelligent design" in the way the Universe was
>>>> "created", if it was created. Â To me, the Universe looks like one hell
>>>> of a mess. Â I'm rather fond of Stendahl's line "God's only excuse is
>>>> that he doesn't exist". Â Nevertheless, I do believe that the
>>>> criticisms given by creationists of the Theory of Evolution, and of
>>>> Darwinism in general, Â have their uses, and have some validity.
>
>>>> Firstly, we CANNOT do an experiment which proves that men can evolve ...
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Author: EskWIREDEskWIRED Date: Jun 25, 2008 11:05
In alt.religion.christian Jerry Kraus yahoo.com> wrote:> I do believe that the
> criticisms given by creationists of the Theory of Evolution, and of
> Darwinism in general, have their uses, and have some validity.
OK. Fine. But that does NOTHING to bolster Creationalism or Intelleigent
Design.
> Firstly, we CANNOT do an experiment which proves that men can evolve
> from apes. Sorry, just can't be done. Therefore, we DO NOT KNOW that
> men are indeed descended from apes.
Your concludion is unjustified. Your point is worthless. There are
methods of bolstering theories that do not involve experimentation.
> Secondly, Darwinism in a social sense, "Social Darwinism", has had,
> historically and currently, disasterous consequences: European
> Imperialism, Nazism, and the modern neoliberal/neoconservative notions
> of an economic "food chain" where the rich are justified in exploiting
> the poor.
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Author: EskWIREDEskWIRED Date: Jun 25, 2008 11:09
In alt.religion.christian Jerry Kraus yahoo.com> wrote:
> We should question whether Newon's Laws hold true on other planets.
Keep your day job, boi-scientist.
> There is no proof that large animals can evolve.
There is a massive body of evidence that such animals did evolve. But
feel free to deny reality. If you don't, your Faith will have been
shown to have been misplaced, and such a consequence is unthinkable (by
you).
--
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel
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Author: Jerry KrausJerry Kraus Date: Jun 25, 2008 11:12
> In alt.religion.christian Jerry Kraus yahoo.com> wrote:> If these are indeed the best arguemnets that support your contention, then
> you need to go back to the drawing board. Perhaps your basic premises are
> incorrect?
As I said, you are substituting rhetoric for logic.
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Author: Conspiracy of DovesConspiracy of Doves Date: Jun 25, 2008 11:18
On Jun 25, 2:04Â pm, Jerry Kraus yahoo.com> wrote:> On Jun 25, 12:57Â pm, Conspiracy of Doves yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> On Jun 25, 1:52Â pm, Jerry Kraus yahoo.com> wrote:>
>>> On Jun 25, 12:41Â pm, tg earthlink.net> wrote:>
>>>> On Jun 25, 1:31Â pm, Jerry Kraus yahoo.com> wrote:>
>>>>> I am not a Creationist. Â I don't believe in a personal God, and I
>>>>> don't think there was "intelligent design" in the way the Universe was
>>>>> "created", if it was created. Â To me, the Universe looks like one hell
>>>>> of a mess. Â I'm rather fond of Stendahl's line "God's only excuse is
>>>>> that he doesn't exist". Â Nevertheless, I do believe that the
>>>>> criticisms given by creationists of the Theory of Evolution, and of
>>>>> Darwinism in general, Â have their uses, and have some validity.
>
>>>>> Firstly, we CANNOT do an experiment which proves that men can evolve
>>>>> from apes. Â Sorry, just can't be done. Â Therefore, we DO NOT KNOW that
>>>>> men are indeed descended from apes. Â No matter how much circumstantial ...
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