"Robert Cohen" msn.com> wrote in message
news:91702e01-8866-4ac1-a0b4-be0f16223fde@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 16, 12:21 am, "Sean" now.com.au> wrote:

True and are anti-pubic interest, because these financial behemoths
are intricately dynamic & essential utilities, as so many people and
dealings are inter-depending on 'em

Our houses of cards are self-destructing if not intervened upon by
Uncle Sam

Of course "the market" absorbs everything in the long run, Professor
Uncle Milty Friedman

Imho: Such absolutist capitalism is NOT in the public interest
especially in the short run in which we exist

We are re-learning the Herbert Hoover era dilemmas

Yeah, today's clashings of political philosophies are not irrelevant,
as we are witnessing the traditional Right and Left issues

All the rightwing radio talk show simplistic shilly wisdumb &
shallowness is MALADAPTIVE & foolishness personified, and CHAOS and
massive deprivations are the inevitable consequence

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SEAN:

Hi Robert, I hear what ur saying. and understand where ur coming from here.
It sure is frustrating.

may i add a few ideas to consider amongst the above thoughts, and note I'm
not an economist or a banker or an american? [ some comments may not be spot
on, i'm imperfect with memory]

re the behemoths and public interest :

-- There is NO FMac/FMay anywhere but in the USA. The govt/congress started
these things under the guise of "public interest"

-- the existence of FM/FM has had the result of excluding/reducing the
traditional forms of home finance [ ala banks/financiers ] out of the
Market.

-- this meant that they only ever had access to loan money at the more
riskier ends of the Market.

-- In the rest of the world "variable changing interest rates" apply to most
home loans. Fixed interest rates limited to 1-5 yrs initially, then
renegotiating a fixed int. or switching to variable rates, only began here
in the 90's. Still today the majority of home loans are Variable.

-- these variable rates are set according to the current "reserve bank"
Interest rate settings - iow costs of funds for banks change accordingly.

-- When US rates were 1%% or LESS, ours and the rest of the worlds was 6%%
plus

-- This whole current mess starts "unnaturally low" interest rates, that
defied gravity for purely "politcal reasons" and expediency.

-- It has been made worse by "unnatural" unfunded TAX Cuts by the govt, for
purely political reasons, and expediency.

-- It was made even more worse with "clever by half" financial behemoths
creating NEW Mortgage CDO's and the like, based upon "unsustainable loans"
given to people who could not repay them. Hidden in the "jargon/advertising
spin" was unsustainable almost ZERO interest rates, which were PROGRAMMED to
rise above "market rates" in 1,2,3 years hence.

--- The Unnatural real estate bubble that resulted, was used as another
advertising spin, to suggest that those buying homes would realise massive
unnatural capital gains/profits.

--- Loans were either fraudulent at worst, and unconscionable at best.

--- The Govt of the day, and Congress IGNORED these new mortgages and
re-packaging.

--- Lehman brothers as one example, set upon a worldwide marketing program
to sell these CDO's mortgage packages as being HIGH YIELD Mortgage SECURED
safe Investments. THEY LIED

--- EG Many Local Govts here were "conned into" these investments, because
of the "credibility" of names like Lehmans, and Bear Sterns etc etc. So were
our Banks and Retirement funds. This means that ordinary people in Aus, and
across the world will be affected when Local govt can no longer afford to
provide services, or maintain infrastructure due to hard cash losses on
these totally worthless investments. They should have left them in the banks
here and earnt 3%% versus the 15%% plus being promised.

--- Your Govt & the Fed has since bailed Bear Sterns & Staff, FM/FMac, Car
manufacturers, and who knows what else, it;s long list. Lehman Bros asked
for support as well, but this time it was refused. Merril Lynch has been
rescued by BoA, by luck and at a bargain price. And yet NOT one home owner
who was conned into one of these fraudulent loans has had a dime of support
from them. Not ONE Local Govt here in Aus will get a dime of support because
they were CONNED into shifting their savings from Banks into these CDO's etc

--- along the way, George Soros and his mates have made SQUILLIONS by
forseeing the upcoming doom, and implementing a secret strategy to take
advantage of the DEFAULTS on loans. This has resulted in even more losses to
Financiers, because whereas mortgage insurance on defaults would normally
cost $x, it then became $xxxxxx, and Soros pocketed the difference as PURE
PROFIT.

--- So, let's summarise
Govt sets up unnatural FM/FM system on fixed rate %%
Fed sets up unnatural 0-1%% rate settings
Mortgage Financiers on the edge of the market with excess availability of
CASH thru the Fed, create and promote manipulative Loans for low-income
earners, and refinanciers.
The RE market booms due to unnaturally LOW interest rates = feeding frenzy
At this point GOVT and Congress DO nothing!!!!
FLAKY loans are re-sold to larger Behemoths
Behemoths create even more FLAKY Mortgage Securities
Using their century long good names and credibility firms like BearS and
LehmanB sell these wooden nickles WORLDWIDE
US Govt/Fed/StockExchanges etc etc still DO NOTHING
Crash begins .......... still NOTHING to protect defrauded individuals who
took out these UNCONSCIENABLE Loans

And still today, very very little has been done excepot window dressing.

What do I think?

The FED Board, and especially Alan Greenspan should be sent to jail for
life -- make up any excuse if needed, but these people have acted
criminally, and negligently against the American people overall, and justice
needs to be seen to be done.

And yet, the delusion is, that the media gets him on shows to try to explain
what is happening.

That is like getting Charles Manson on TV as an expert, to try to explain
the mind of the psychopath who did the Sharon Tate murders, as if Manson was
totally innocent and not connected to the crime at all.

The same goes for the Bush Govt .... these people if not criminal, are
totally incompetant and have ignored their OATHS to defend the US
Constitution. Impeachment is NOT good enough.

Every member, of every Board of every Financial Institution involved in this
crisis should be sacked immediately, their assets frozen, and investigated
by the FBI or some other Special prosecutor. Immunity should be given to
people who confess, and provide names and evidence of malfeasence.

The same goes for every firm, and every salesman who sold these flaky loans
to innocent well intentioned people. They should be fully investigated,
their assets frozen, and a court/tribunal decide to refund lost money,
assets, to people whoi have lost their homes.

THATS what a decent genuine Govt who was really concerned about the PUBLIC
INTEREST of all individuals in the USA would be doing today, or beginning in
late January 2009.

What about these so called "behemoths" so critical to the public?

LET THEM COLLAPSE, AND LET THOSE WHO WORKED THERE SPEND AS MUCH TIME
UNEMPLOYED AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE, and pray that as many of them as possible
get sent to jail, so that some kind of wake up call is given to the rest who
work in the Financial industry, in Business, and the Stock markets.

What is happening to day is NOT AN ACCIDENT, and yet it has affected the
entire world.

At every step of the way, people knowingly took steps that defrauded others,
or purposely manipulated the existing system for their own advantage. It
starts at Bush and goes all the way down the line. All are culpable, none
should be excused, or forgiven untill justice is done.

Which means every person or entity that has been done an injustice is
recognized, and recompensed by at least an apology by the US Govt who are
ultimately titularly responsible for what has happened.

Lastly, it isn't a fault of "government" in a general sense. It is a defined
failure of your specific Govt and Congresses to allow such things to occur,
and not the concept of itself. It doesn't mean that Govt is bad, just that
over a period of times YOUR GOVT's and the system you accept is what is BAD,
and failing.

IT NEEDS CHANGING - your values and beliefs about this whole process needs
radical revolutionary change.

You guys over there keep doing [ and allowing ] the same sort of thing over
and over, the same lame excuses keep being made, whether its Enron,
WorldCom, Vietnam, 9/11, Iraqi WMD, or the current financial crisis, and
nothing ever changes, EVER.

IMHO ... of course.

Your milage may vary.