Re: Justice for Indigenous Peoples
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Re: Justice for Indigenous Peoples         

Group: alt.philosophy · Group Profile
Author: Immortalist
Date: Oct 5, 2007 21:25

On Oct 4, 9:27 pm, Robert Cohen msn.com> wrote:
> i'm reading some of the propaganda against modern israel in this n.g.,
> and i perceive it reeks of some false pretense, as if descendants of
> jews have no real property right to the land of modern israel
>
> well, is it not the fact that
>
> explorers and settlers from "civilized" europe are not innocent re the
> elimination and/or forced re-location of various native peoples in the
> the americas, australia, and africa, which has undergone re-taking or
> de-colonialzation of european descendant rulers in the second half of
> the 20th century ?
>

What kind of criteria should be listed in order to justify a standars
whic creates agreement about who owns what and who has a right or not
to some place? Is the definition of the terms really enough settle the
matter or are there other parts of human nature at play here? If we
accept a definition of "Indigenous" is it enough to justify ownership
or power?

The term indigenous peoples has no universal, standard or fixed
definition, but can be used about any ethnic group who inhabit the
geographic region with which they have the earliest historical
connection. ...

..."Non-indigenous" viewpoints

Indigenous peoples have variously been identified as primitives,
savages, or uncivilized. These terms were common during the heyday of
European colonial expansion. By the 17th century, indigenous peoples
were commonly labeled "uncivilized". Proponents of civilization, like
Thomas Hobbes, considered them merely savages; Enlightenment
philosophers such as Jean Jacques Rousseau, considered them to be
"noble savages". Those who were close to the Hobbesian view tended to
believe themselves to have a duty to civilize and modernize indigenes.
Although anthropologists, especially from Europe, used to apply these
terms to all tribal cultures, it has fallen into disfavor as demeaning
and, according to anthropologists, inaccurate (see tribe, cultural
evolution). Survival International runs a campaign to stamp out media
portrayal of indigenous peoples as 'primitive' or 'savages'.

After World War I, however, many Europeans came to doubt the value of
civilization. At the same time, the anti-colonial movement, and
advocates of indigenous peoples, argued that words such as "civilized"
and "savage" were products and tools of colonialism, and argued that
colonialism itself was savagely destructive.

In the mid 20th century, European attitudes began to shift to the view
that indigenous and tribal peoples should have the right to decide for
themselves what should happen to their ancient cultures and their
ancestral lands.

Several criticisms of the concept of indigenous peoples are:

In many cases, such as with some Native American tribes, some people
claim that the people termed indigenous arrived in an area after the
people termed non-indigenous.

Peoples have invaded or colonised each other's lands since before
recorded history and so the division into indigenous and non-
indigenous is a matter of judgement. Even in recent centuries there
are difficulties: for example, are the Zulu people indigenous to South
Africa?

Lumping indigenous peoples into one group ignores the vast amounts of
diversity among them and at the same time imposes a uniform identity
on them, which may not be historically accurate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_and_identity_of_indigenous_peoples
> as previously noted, i'm a relativist, and that's how i subjectively
> personally judge these phenomena, because i suppose absolutism is
> idealism and near insanity
>
> if i were an absolutist, i would hold that all ye of european ancestry
> ought to return to europe, and ought to make reparations to the living
> remnants of native tribes who were conquered
>
> a proverb or motto or cliche heard in the u.s.black community culture
> now comes to my terrific mini-mind for which my opponent would regard
> as my mis-understanding of: historical nuance, politcally correct
> sanctimony, and moral hypocrisy:
>
> what goeth around, cometh around
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