I believe it was Jung who said (paraphrasing):

"Religion is a defense against religious experiences".

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 10:20:40 -0700 (PDT), ta nc.rr.com>
wrote:

Organized Western religions generally discourage participation
in activities which may lead to experiences called "religious". Not
all do though. A small number of Western religions based on
Eastern religions do encourage personal experiences such as
out-of-body, etc.

Art
http://home.ptd.net/~artnpeg

ta wrote:

Yes. You did. He did.

On Aug 19, 12:20 pm, ta nc.rr.com> wrote:

We're getting kind of deep into semantics here. The word "religion"
actually comes from Latin "religare", to restrain. So, the concept of
"religion" is closely associated with control. Always has been. On
the other hand, "religious experiences" often are associated with the
supernatural and the inspirational, and represent the precise opposite
of restraint -- they represent extreme, even anarchistic freedom. So,
how do control and extreme freedom become conceptually associated?

Well, the Germans -- the philosopher Hegel, particularly -- argue that
true freedom consists in limiting freedom in a socially useful way.
So, we are only "free" when we are sufficiently under control to
function socially. So, a religious experience might be an insight
into how we can control ourselves so as to function as effectively as
possible in society.

On Aug 19, 1:57 pm, Art zilch.com> wrote:

All religions -- eastern or western -- are conceptual in nature, and
therefore antithetical to actual experience (which can only be known
"now").

On Aug 19, 2:44 pm, Jerry Kraus yahoo.com> wrote:

That's right. And any time there is control, the "letting go" that is
necessary for authentic experiences is absent.

Religious people are enamored with the *idea* of religious
experiences. That's the difference.

Art wrote:

I used to do holotropic breathwork which is non-religious and
non-guiding. Everyone had some sort of spiritual or transpersonal
experience, bigtime, not just 'imagine you are ...'.

On Aug 19, 11:20 am, ta nc.rr.com> wrote:

Unavoidable tautology. I see what he means, though.

W : )

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:05:43 -0700 (PDT), Wordsmith rocketmail.com>
wrote:

When a person's qualia producing brain structures get messed with,
through such as weird food, hyperventilation, stroke, parasites,
epilepsy, drugs, trauma, ritual, (magic, mystical manifestation,
the holy ghost :-)), etc., strange perceptions may occur.
The automatic confabulation of "making sense" of those perceptions
may be assisted by the practiced religion and God stories.

On Aug 19, 10:20 am, ta nc.rr.com> wrote:

In his paper on Psychology and Religion, Jung suggests that “religion
is incontestably one of the earliest and most universal activities of
the human mind” (1969:1) Dunne (2000:152) indicates that Jung...