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Author: Jerry KrausJerry Kraus Date: Jun 15, 2008 12:41
One of the points that Libertarian types tend to emphasize over and
over again is that it's "their money, they can do what they want with
it." Well, not really. Society decides what you own and what you
don't own. Always has, always will. Society decides income taxation,
inheritance rights, property taxes, sales taxes, capital gains taxes,
social security benefits, welfare benefits, medicare benefits etc.
And these change all the time.
Now, if you assert that there should be no taxation, that's fine.
But, how do you have a government without taxation? And, if you have
no government, how do you protect your money? Police, Courts, Prisons
are bloody expensive. Not to mention the military.
What is quite clear, in the U.S., is that whoever is "winning the
game"
-- has the most assets -- will swear on a stack of Bibles that
whatever they have is "theirs forever, by divine right", and that
unlimited sums should be spent to protect their right to have it and
control it, forever.
Fat chance.
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Author: Jerry KrausJerry Kraus Date: Jun 15, 2008 14:05
On Jun 15, 3:59Â pm, STOPTHESCAM charter.net> wrote:> Jerry Kraus wrote:
>> One of the points that Libertarian types tend to emphasize over and
>> over again is that it's "their money, they can do what they want with
>> it." Â Well, not really. Â Society decides what you own and what you
>> don't own. Â Always has, always will. Â Society decides income taxation,
>> inheritance rights, property taxes, sales taxes, capital gains taxes,
>> social security benefits, welfare benefits, medicare benefits etc.
>> And these change all the time.
>
>> Now, if you assert that there should be no taxation, that's fine.
>> But, how do you have a government without taxation? Â And, if you have
>> no government, how do you protect your money? Â Police, Courts, Prisons
>> are bloody expensive. Â Not to mention the military.
>
>> What is quite clear, in the U.S., is that whoever is "winning the
>> game" -- has the most assets -- will swear on a stack of Bibles that
>> whatever they have is "theirs forever, by divine right", and that
>> unlimited sums should be spent to protect their right to have it and
>> control it, forever. ...
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Author: Jerry KrausJerry Kraus Date: Jun 15, 2008 14:10
On Jun 15, 3:59Â pm, STOPTHESCAM charter.net> wrote:> Jerry Kraus wrote:
>> One of the points that Libertarian types tend to emphasize over and
>> over again is that it's "their money, they can do what they want with
>> it." Â Well, not really. Â Society decides what you own and what you
>> don't own. Â Always has, always will. Â Society decides income taxation,
>> inheritance rights, property taxes, sales taxes, capital gains taxes,
>> social security benefits, welfare benefits, medicare benefits etc.
>> And these change all the time.
>
>> Now, if you assert that there should be no taxation, that's fine.
>> But, how do you have a government without taxation? Â And, if you have
>> no government, how do you protect your money? Â Police, Courts, Prisons
>> are bloody expensive. Â Not to mention the military.
>
>> What is quite clear, in the U.S., is that whoever is "winning the
>> game" -- has the most assets -- will swear on a stack of Bibles that
>> whatever they have is "theirs forever, by divine right", and that
>> unlimited sums should be spent to protect their right to have it and
>> control it, forever. ...
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Author: Jerry KrausJerry Kraus Date: Jun 15, 2008 14:32
On Jun 15, 4:22Â pm, STOPTHESCAM charter.net> wrote:> Jerry Kraus wrote:
>> On Jun 15, 3:59 pm, STOPTHESCAM charter.net> wrote:>>> Jerry Kraus wrote:
>>>> One of the points that Libertarian types tend to emphasize over and
>>>> over again is that it's "their money, they can do what they want with
>>>> it." Â Well, not really. Â Society decides what you own and what you
>>>> don't own. Â Always has, always will. Â Society decides income taxation,
>>>> inheritance rights, property taxes, sales taxes, capital gains taxes,
>>>> social security benefits, welfare benefits, medicare benefits etc.
>>>> And these change all the time.
>>>> Now, if you assert that there should be no taxation, that's fine.
>>>> But, how do you have a government without taxation? Â And, if you have
>>>> no government, how do you protect your money? Â Police, Courts, Prisons
>>>> are bloody expensive. Â Not to mention the military.
>>>> What is quite clear, in the U.S., is that whoever is "winning the
>>>> game" -- has the most assets -- will swear on a stack of Bibles that
>>>> whatever they have is "theirs forever, by divine right", and that
>>>> unlimited sums should be spent to protect their right to have it and
>>>> control it, forever. ...
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Author: Bret CahillBret Cahill Date: Jun 15, 2008 19:34
The best way to troll for economic rightards is to use my tried and
true approach:
Just ask them if free speech precedes each and every free trade.
They'll jump on that like a bass on a plastic worm.
Actually the bass is more intelligent and has more personality.
Bret Cahill
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Author: Rich HutnikRich Hutnik Date: Jun 15, 2008 21:39
On Jun 15, 3:41 pm, Jerry Kraus yahoo.com> wrote:> One of the points that Libertarian types tend to emphasize over and
> over again is that it's "their money, they can do what they want with
> it." Well, not really. Society decides what you own and what you
> don't own. Always has, always will. Society decides income taxation,
> inheritance rights, property taxes, sales taxes, capital gains taxes,
> social security benefits, welfare benefits, medicare benefits etc.
> And these change all the time.
>
> Now, if you assert that there should be no taxation, that's fine.
> But, how do you have a government without taxation? And, if you have
> no government, how do you protect your money? Police, Courts, Prisons
> are bloody expensive. Not to mention the military.
>
> What is quite clear, in the U.S., is that whoever is "winning the
> game" -- has the most assets -- will swear on a stack of Bibles that
> whatever they have is "theirs forever, by divine right", and that
> unlimited sums should be spent to protect their right to have it and
> control it, forever.
> ...
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Author: ClaveClave Date: Jun 15, 2008 21:45
> Libertarians are pragmatic Anarchists who believe in property rights.
> Considering how poorly governments handle things, they do have a
> case. Maybe you don't agree with it, but it is there.
For everyone to point and laugh at.
Jim
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Author: IainIain Date: Jun 16, 2008 00:49
Ownership is all about what one can do with something, that other
people cannot. Therefore it is a social agreement.
~Iain
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Author: tgtg Date: Jun 16, 2008 03:13
On Jun 16, 3:49Â am, Iain hotmail.com> wrote:> Ownership is all about what one can do with something, that other
> people cannot. Therefore it is a social agreement.
>
Actually, it is only about what a nation-state can prevent individuals
or groups from doing. I cannot lift a 200 lb block of gold, but if the
nation-state allows me to decide, I can prevent others from doing so
through the instrumentality of the state (e.g. the police.)
There is no 'agreement' (in the sense of a contract) involved, since
the nation-state sets the terms for my 'ownership'.
-tg
> ~Iain
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Author: Jerry KrausJerry Kraus Date: Jun 16, 2008 07:18
On Jun 15, 11:39Â pm, Rich Hutnik gmail.com> wrote:> On Jun 15, 3:41 pm, Jerry Kraus yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>> One of the points that Libertarian types tend to emphasize over and
>> over again is that it's "their money, they can do what they want with
>> it." Â Well, not really. Â Society decides what you own and what you
>> don't own. Â Always has, always will. Â Society decides income taxation,
>> inheritance rights, property taxes, sales taxes, capital gains taxes,
>> social security benefits, welfare benefits, medicare benefits etc.
>> And these change all the time.
>
>> Now, if you assert that there should be no taxation, that's fine.
>> But, how do you have a government without taxation? Â And, if you have
>> no government, how do you protect your money? Â Police, Courts, Prisons
>> are bloody expensive. Â Not to mention the military.
> ...
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