rc wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 23:54:06 -0600, Chris H. Fleming wrote
> (in article
comcast.com>):
> >> rc wrote:
>>> On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 23:29:18 -0600, Chris H. Fleming wrote
>>> (in article
comcast.com>):
>>>
>>>>>>> Regardless, atheism is not strictly believing there is no god, atheism
>>>> is more generally not believing there is a god. There is a difference,
>>>> and the difference does not allow you say an atheist has "faith".
>>> You haven't shown me any difference between generally and strictly
>>> believing
>>> there is no god. I'm not sure I follow what your saying here.
>> Atheism doesn't generally mean "belief in no god".
>> Atheism specifically means "no belief in god".
>>
>> On top of not believing in any god, an atheist can believe certain gods
>> do not exist.
>
> Well, you said previously that "atheism is more generally not believing there
> is a god". And now you said "Atheism doesn't generally mean belief in no
> god". Well...Which is it?
Atheism = A-Theism = Not Theism
Theism = Belief in Theos = Belief in God
Atheism = Not Belief in God = No Belief in God
This is not the same, but is compatible, with believing God doesn't
exist. The two are often distinguished as weak and strong.
(Weak) Atheism = No Belief in God
Strong Atheism = Belief in No God
The different placement of the negation makes a real difference in the
definition. The (weak) atheist only has to play the game of the skeptic
and note that there is no evidence for a god. The strong atheist has to
prove that there is no god ... of what type is being discussed. Strong
atheism is not a generalizable stance, it is only relative to some kind
of theism. Weak atheism is a generalizable stance, one must only list
all their beliefs and note the lack of gods.
> This business of specifically no belief in god, in the sense that one doesn't
> currently have a disposition on the claim of god/gods existence is usually
> termed agnosticism. Agnosticism and atheism are not equivalent.
They are not equivalent and that is also not what agnosticism is.
Atheism is a statement about lack of belief in gods, it is set
compliment to theism. Agnosticism is a statement about the lack of
knowledge (gnosis) about the existence of gods: that either one doesn't
have knowledge or, as originally defined, that one cannot have knowledge
of the existence of such entities. Not only that, atheism is compatible
with agnosticism.
The term agnosticism is often abused to mean some kind of middle ground
between theism and weak or strong atheism, but that is not how it was
defined by Huxley. It is a sophisticated view on how one should deal
with certain unprovable metaphysical claims. Theism, deism, and atheism
have all changed in meanings over the centuries, but agnosticism has the
luxury of being defined by a single man.
> Atheism is a belief that god/gods/supernatural/whatever does not exist. It is
> usually considered a claim of faith, on the same grounds that a theist's
> claims are. Namely, there isn't a tenable argument either way.
That is what a person claims when they want to attack atheists with
strawmen. Go to alt.atheism and ask them how they define themselves.
