On Aug 15, 11:12 pm, turtoni
fastmail.net> wrote:> On Aug 16, 1:46 am, Immortalist
yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>> On Aug 12, 11:38 pm, turtoni
fastmail.net> wrote:>
>>> On Aug 13, 2:05 am, Immortalist
yahoo.com> wrote:>
>>>> On Aug 12, 3:19 pm, "Theresa McCarty"
qx.net> wrote:>
>>>>> Socialization and genetics aside as crucial variables, individual
>>>>> subjectivity is not otherwise differentiable and is thus identical in all.
>
>>>> It might go deeper than that. The experience we recognize as
>>>> experience, or feeling like we exist, may be happening in the brain-
>>>> stem, and hence most animal have this self, but don't have a bunch of
>>>> stuff wired up to it like limbic systems and outer cortices.
>
>>>> Your "3-Brains-in-One" Brain
>
>>>> You may have thought all you had was one, but inside there are two
>>>> more brains.
>
>>>> Actually, you already know this from your experience: for example,
>>>> remember a time when you really wanted to do something, but you knew
>>>> you shouldn't? The most illogical or irrational "wants" we have
>>>> probably derive from older parts of our brain, while the understanding
>>>> of smart versus dumb choices comes from the newest part. If that idea
>>>> offends you, or seems just too "Western" or "scientific", you might
>>>> take a "de-tour" for a moment and read this essay on science.
>
>>>> Take another example: you can be hungry, but not feel it until you
>>>> pay attention to it; then when you do notice, you realize you've been
>>>> getting hungrier for a long time. Hunger comes from the most basic
>>>> parts of our brain, but our awareness of it is controlled by the
>>>> newest part.
>
>>>> Here are the "3 brains":
>
>>>> Brain One
>>>> -Center of the Brain
>>>> -"R complex"
>>>> -snakes, lizards
>
>>>> Brain Two
>>>> -Wrapped around Brain One
>>>> -"limbic system" or "old mammalian brain"
>>>> -dogs, cats
>
>>>> Brain Three
>>>> -Outside Surface
>>>> -(Wrapped around Brain Two!)
>>>> -"neocortex"
>>>> -primates, especially human primates
>
>>>> Brain One
>
>>>> This is the brain we share with birds, and reptiles. Think of it as
>>>> the "housekeeping brain". Just the basics: hunger, temperature
>>>> control, fight-or-flight fear responses, defending territory, keeping
>>>> safe -- that kind of thing. The structures that perform these
>>>> functions within our brain are extremely similar to those in the
>>>> brains of reptiles. Thus, this brain is called the "R complex" (R for
>>>> reptilian). You can take a Tour of the R complex when you wish; and
>>>> you will see parts of it in the section on obsessions.
>
>>>> Brain Two
>
>>>> As animals became more complex, other structures were added around the
>>>> R complex in a shell, or "girdle". The Latin word for arc or girdle is
>>>> "limbus", and this brain is called the "limbic system". We humans
>>>> share this brain with older mammals like dogs, cats, and horses, and
>>>> even mice (as opposed to newer mammals like chimps; we'll get to them
>>>> in a moment). Their brains, and this part of our brains, are extremely
>>>> similar.
>
>>>> Think about the difference between a mouse and a lizard, or between a
>>>> cat and a snake, and you'll recognize what this mammalian brain adds
>>>> to a creature's capacities. Mammals have "feelings" like ours. We'll
>>>> be looking at the structures of the limbic system in the sections on
>>>> mood, memory, and hormone control. The main parts of the limbic system
>>>> (except the thalamus, which is generally regarded as part of Brain
>>>> One) are shown below. By taking all the Brain Tours you'll see each of
>>>> these parts and get a better sense of how this set of structures is
>>>> positioned underneath the cortex.
>
>>>> Brain Three
>
>>>> Here is the familiar "cortex" you can see from the outside. With this
>>>> brain, primates can do things that horses and cows cannot, like
>>>> complex social interactions and advance planning (such as planning an
>>>> attack on a neighboring troop). In humans the cortex has grown to a
>>>> huge size, somehow in association with our development of language.
>>>> Other primates like chimpanzees, or monkeys, have much less cortex,
>>>> which is surprising since chimpanzee DNA differs from ours by only
>>>> 1.6%%! (stunning, really; I hope you're stunned. Recently some
>>>> technical issues have arisen with this number, but for now, it's still
>>>> generally regarded as, well, amazing!). If you wonder why we humans
>>>> have populated the entire globe, while our chimp relatives are stuck
>>>> in a shrinking rain forest with their nearly identical DNA -- read The
>>>> Third Chimpanzee, by Jared Diamond. You've got a great question, and
>>>> his is a great answer. (Similarly, if you wonder why white-skinned
>>>> humans seem to have an unfair share of the resources and money, his
>>>> other masterpiece offers a solid explanation beside skin color: Guns,
>>>> Germs, and Steel).
>
>>>> Three Brains in One
>
>>>> To keep all this straight, think of the following image (ok, it's a
>>>> little odd, but it seems to work; write if you have another one). The
>>>> R brain is like a golf club. Let's make it a driver, one of those with
>>>> a big fat wooden head. Hold the club so that the head is at the top.
>>>> There's your R complex, with your spine sticking down toward the
>>>> ground. The R brain is just a big swelling at the top of a spinal
>>>> cord, and that's how it developed. Worms have little swellings, snakes
>>>> have bigger ones. OK so far?
>
>>>> Next we'll add the layer that makes mammals behave so differently from
>>>> reptiles. This next "layer", the old mammalian brain, evolved on top
>>>> of the R complex. It was not a remodel so much as an addition, like
>>>> adding on bedrooms all the way around a kitchen/bathroom. This
>>>> addition covers the entire R complex, leaving the R complex deep
>>>> within the brain. In our model, take the golf club, and cover the head
>>>> with a sock; a big thick red one would be nice. Now you have the R
>>>> brain (golf club), with the old mammalian brain wrapped around it
>>>> (sock). Notice that the red sock forms a shell, or continuous border
>>>> around the golf club head.
>
>>>> To complete the brain picture, add a bicycle or hockey helmet on top
>>>> of your red-socked golf club head: that's the newest mammalian
>>>> addition, the "cortex", and it is the grey squiggly stuff you can see
>>>> on the outside. If you'd like a tour of the cortex itself, as you've
>>>> seen it so far (like, what are those colored parts?), click here.
>
>
>>> I think this is too simplistic. Wrapped around?
>
>>> More likely the whole brain structure is a complexity of interwoven
>>> networks rather than layers of inherited intelligence building over
>>> themselves.
>
>> Only problem with that is that reptiles have similar parts to their
>> brain stems but nothing else, some vertebrates and mammals don't have
>> any outer cortex but have the reptilian brain stem and the limbic mid
>> brain structures. In order for you position to be sustained you would
>> need to account for those strange similarities and differences and the
>> accompanying behaviors that each of those three brains have been show
>> to contribute to.
>
> Your order of the brain structure would need to be sustained.
>
> Those descriptions don't work for me.
>
> "Consciousness defies definition"
>
> Perhaps the subjective "consciousness" is a wrap around but the actual
> physical mapping out is more of a matter of an interwoven network of
> structures. This would seem to be obvious. With the whole being
> greater than the parts.
>
Brain One
-Center of the Brain
-"R complex"
-snakes, lizards
Brain Two
-Wrapped around Brain One
-"limbic system" or "old mammalian brain"
-dogs, cats
Brain Three
-Outside Surface
-(Wrapped around Brain Two!)
-"neocortex"
-primates, especially human primates
It could be a post hoc but there is some evidence that these
structures evolved in time after each other and snakes and lizards
appear to be conscious.
Post hoc ergo propter hoc is Latin for "after this, therefore because
of this." It is often shortened to simply post hoc.
Post hoc, also known as "coincidental correlation" or "false cause,"
is a logical fallacy which assumes or asserts that if one event
happens after another, then the first must be the cause of the second.
It is a particularly tempting error because temporal sequence is
integral to causality — it is true that a cause always happens before
its effect. The fallacy lies in coming to a conclusion based only on
the order of events, which is not an accurate indicator. That is to
say, it is not always true that the first event caused the second
event.
Post hoc is an example of affirming the consequent. It can be
expressed as follows:
If event A causes event B, then A must have occurred before B.
Event A occurred before event B.
Therefore, A must have caused B.
This line of reasoning is the basis for many superstitious beliefs and
magical thinking, connecting two things that have no actual or logical
connection.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc
