On Feb 24, 3:24 am, "Sammybaby"
yahoo.com> wrote:> On 24 Feb, 03:14, "Immortalist"
yahoo.com> wrote:>> On Feb 23, 6:06 pm, "Gary Childress"
aol.com> wrote:>>> On Feb 23, 8:47 pm, "zinnic"
gate.net> wrote:>>>> On Feb 23, 7:41 pm, "Gary Childress"
aol.com> wrote:>
>>>>> I wonder why that is?
>
>>>> You have nothing of consequence to offer?
>
>>> An interesting experiment. I throw out a moment of vulnerability, a
>>> momentary need of consolation and what do I get, two replies so far
>>> attacking me. I find the two of you to be most reprehensible human
>>> specimens. What have you to say for yourselves? Nothing redeeming I
>>> assume?
>
>> I chose how I will react to events in the world pretty good. Your
>> reactions are your doing and from my experience in battered womens
>> groups, where injured ladies come in crying and all, the therapist
>> attacks them savagely trying to make them realize that their reaction
>> is their own doing.
>
> But this is not what you did. Your attack was from the head without
> any passion in it.
Exactly. Control, but whats wrong with emotions. Cognitive therapy
helps people who are overly happy or sad.
> It came off as talking down. Hardly counterintuitive but rather
> commonplace. I would also guess that this was just one therapist in
> one battered women's group.
> Further why teach someone as a rule that their reaction is their own
> doing.
> You get beat up, you cry.
> I can't see what the point of teaching someone their is some
> intellectual error in a natural and healthy reaction is.
The idea behind cognitive therapy is to at first shock a person into
seeing their own part in their habitual reactions. There is nothing
wrong with crying, but some psychs think it is a problem when
emotional reactions become sustained and interfere with a persons
life. The method merely alerts people to their part through thought
processes creating moods. Once the method is learned a normal cry or
laugh, one that doesn't interfere with desired goals, is prescribed.
Remember that the goal is to make people aware that they have a choice
to think and feel any way they want to, they have the power, then they
can go any way they want.
Your confusing the shock method, which may not be cognitive therapy,
with chosing how to think and feel. Choosing that is, and controlling,
not being led around by strange habits, as if imprisoned.
I have heard your complaint plenty of times but its an over-reaction,
because you could go to unhealthy extremes both ways, not enough
control over habits and to much control over habits. Cognitive therapy
is just a way to tone down habits that interfere with daily life.
People come to those groups and pay money.
> The crying is not the problem. Perhaps. Perhaps. A loving response
> to that person might get them to explore other emotions (such as anger
> and feelings of self-love eventually) and show how they have denied
> these to hold together relationships because of judgements (ideas)
> about the world and themselves that are not true.
> But still, that is very different from teaching people to control
> their emotions, to split them against themselves.
>
Play into their "blaming" their reactions upon the events in the world
instead of their thinking process. The point is the reaction is not
necessary in diminished or in the extreme, but people who come to
those groups learn that they have always been in control of their
reactions.
> I am sure a creative loving person might react by immediately doing
> something counter-intuitive as you described but if he or she did it
> with all his or her clients that's just heartless application of an
> idea.
>
She does it with anyone who comes in there thinking that their
reactions are caused by events in the world. She will not be a part of
that lie.
> Heartless application of ideas.
>
Not, you seem to lack an understanding of cognitive therapy.
> That pattern is something that contributes to the sorrow in my heart.
>
Your choice, has nothing whatsoever to do with the text.
> But it is the 21st century. We no longer need philosophies of
> Stoicism. There are pills that can shut down the human heart far more
> efficiently.
>
> That seems counter-intuitive right? But I have
>
You seem weak and defensive.
>
>
>> seen many of them over a couple of years gain control over their own
>> reactions, instead of being pulled down the river by old thinking
>> habits.
>
>> Snap out of it man, think like a Roman then, if yea don't like psycho-
>> bablee sounding styles;
>
>> What disturbs people's minds are not events but their judgements on
>> events
>
>> ...Seek not that the things which happen should happen as you wish;
>> but wish the things which happen to be as they are, and you will have
>> a tranquil flow of life. Men are not worried by things, but by their
>> ideas about things. When we meet difficulties, become anxious or
>> troubled, let us not blame others, but rather ourselves, that is: our
>> idea about things
>
>> ...Some things are up to us and some are not up to us. Our opinions
>> are up to us, our impulses, desires, aversions, in-short whatever is
>> our doing. Our bodies are not up to us, nor our possessions, our
>> reputations, or our public offices, or that is, whatever is not of our
>> own doing.
>> --Epictetus- Hide quoted text -
>
