On Jul 31, 8:23Â am, "tooly"
bellsouth.net> wrote:>
gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:36c65678-7d00-4fc7-b021-49ea1d074fa7@i24g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 29, 9:36 pm, turtoni fastmail.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>> On Jul 30, 12:16 am, Shrikeb...@
gmail.com wrote:
>
>>> On Jul 29, 6:00 am, "tooly"
bellsouth.net> wrote:>
>>>>
gmail.com> wrote in message>
>
>>>>> There is no reason an honest person should ever feel guilty about
>>>>> their choices, regardless of the outcome of such choices. Doing the
>>>>> best you can with what you had at the time means acting honestly,
>>>>> leading to growth.
>
>>>>> Doesnt stop the consequence of your action, but sure as hell takes
>>>>> the
>>>>> sting away.
>
>>>>> We put a break on growth if we associate such growth with pain, and
>>>>> that becomes extremely painful, akin to being allergic to water.
>
>>>>> BOfL
>
>>>> I disagree with all this. Guilt is an exercise of empathy...a taking
>>>> on
>>>> some sense of another's existence as your own. I feel 'guilt' just
>>>> seeing
>>>> someone on the street less fortunate than I am.
>
>>> That's not guilt, it's pity. If you felt as though you were so
>>> filthy rich through injustice, that might be guilt.
>
>> In relation to the mentally ill homeless person on the street we are
>> "filthy rich".
>>>That's true. Â It is not generally the case that the homeless guy's
>>>condition was caused by you, however. Â So there is nothing to be
>>>guilty for. Â Likewise, when you meet the guy who has no feet,
>>>legs, or arms, it is not guilt you feel. Â Just being luckier than
>>>someone else is not a cause for guilt. You may feel guilty for not
>>>giving the guy a ten-spot with which to buy some fortified wine. Â If
>>>you felt obligated to do that.
>
> What's that old addage, "There, but for the grace of God, go I"?
> Still seems like we are in a semantical debate here. Â Guilt, shame, and now
> pity....these all require some 'stepping out' of our own shoes to imagine
> what it must be like to be someone else I think.
>
> I had this thought about J.S. Bach. Â This guy was a mental giant that
> dwarfed people even today. Â His very presence stifled a great deal in
> others by the realization that they could never excel to his level. Â I don't
> know this of course, but rationalize it by the experiences I've had in this
> time. Â If I'm a clutz, I don't usually take up juggling...though without a
> comparison, I might like to throw them around anyway, just for fun. Â But
> comparisons do exist and 'in comparison' I am a clutz...so...no juggling.
> I think a similar dynamic exists for all human activity, that we tend to
> continue to do those things we 'compare' well with others for. Â Bach, being
> in his own class however, may have shut down the entire music making
> community, LOL...well, a joke, but the point is made I hope. Â We exist with
> effect on others.
>
> If I were not here, would that fellow under the bridge living off pickleweed
> have had a better time of it?
> We all exist along a long line of dominoes, where taking out any single one
> could have effects we cannot realize. Â My very BEing has an effect...either
> a postive one or a negative one and perhaps we can never know totally...but
> out of our guilt, our shame, and for pity's sake, we move to assure
> ourselves we might have a positive effect, and not negative; that the guy
> under the bridge is forked over a buck or two that he not totally starve of
> human compassion [no matter he may turn that compassion into another bottle
> of thunderbird wine or not, ha].
>
> Perhaps this is taking guilt a bit far, but it establishes a sense of my own
> self that realizes I am not an island, and that all things are indeed tied
> together.  Guilt, shame, pity...and perhaps other emotions  not discussed
> yet, are not all these really an attempt to care? Â If I care not...no guilt,
> no shame, no pity. Â Unfortunately perhaps [not sure], if we do CARE...then
> perhaps then we feel our guilt the deepest, our shame the more profound, and
> our pity made to action.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
The more self realized you become, the more you become a catalyst in
the chain of events, and events are essential to growth. Like a
catalyst in the chemistry sense, you enter and exit the process
without being changed, as well as being essential to the process.
Bach being an example, although I dont know much of his personal lifes
experiences. Was he a victim of his own prowess?
BOfL
