"Ed"
earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:e69ead19-dc8b-4df1-909d-21d62dcae5c8@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 7, 8:12 am, "Sean" now.com.au> wrote:> "Ed"
earthlink.net> wrote in message
>
> news:328ea182-29c6-45f2-824b-c91b9fb8b925@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 6, 6:35 am, "Sean" now.com.au> wrote:
>
>
>>> Halliburton Ex-Official
>> Pleads Guilty in Bribe Case
>> By RUSSELL GOLD
>> September 4, 2008; Page A1
>
>> In a wide-ranging foreign-corruption investigation, fired former
>> Halliburton
>> Co. executive Albert J. "Jack" Stanley pleaded guilty to orchestrating
>> more
>> than $180 million in bribes to senior Nigerian government officials. The
>> bribes were used to win a contract to build a liquefied-natural-gas
>> plant
>> in
>> Nigeria.
>
>> Under a plea agreement entered Wednesday in a Houston federal court, Mr.
>> Stanley faces seven years in prison and a $10.8 million restitution
>> payment.
>> His lawyer, Lee Kaplan, said, "We're hopeful the government finds his
>> cooperation merits" a reduction in his prison sentence.
>
>> Mr. Stanley's agreement to cooperate could breathe new life into the
>> five-year federal investigation, and additional charges of executives
>> are
>> possible. Various current and former executives of KBR, once a unit of
>> Halliburton but now an independent company, have been subpoenaed, as
>> have
>> other companies involved in the construction.
>
>> The guilty plea exposes the corruption that sometimes goes hand in hand
>> with
>> enormous energy investments in Africa and other parts of the world. As
>> energy companies search the world for oil and gas and related projects,
>> they
>> sometimes encounter foreign government officials whose approval is
>> needed
>> for investments but who seek bribes. Bribing such officials subjects
>> companies and executives to possible prosecution under the U.S. Foreign
>> Corrupt Practices Act.
>
>> According to the plea, government prosecutors said bribes began in 1995,
>> while Mr. Stanley worked for M.W. Kellogg, then part of a company called
>> Dresser Industries Inc. Halliburton acquired Dresser in 1998 and merged
>> M.W.
>> Kellogg into an engineering and construction unit of Halliburton called
>> Kellogg Brown & Root, or KBR.
>
>> Several of the bribes Mr. Stanley has said were paid occurred after that
>> acquisition, during the time when Vice President Dick Cheney led
>> Halliburton, and they continued after Mr. Cheney left. Though there was
>> no
>> evidence Mr. Cheney knew of the bribes, the future vice president
>> promoted
>> Mr. Stanley to run KBR in 1998. Mr. Stanley's guilty plea said the
>> bribes
>> continued until 2004, the year Halliburton fired him. Mr. Cheney's
>> tenure
>> as
>> Halliburton chief executive ended in 2000.
>
>> The guilty plea thus could renew attention to Mr. Cheney's past ties to
>> Halliburton. The oil-service company was the focus of intense scrutiny
>> in
>> Washington starting in late 2003 when evidence emerged of extensive
>> overcharging for work in provisioning the U.S. war effort in Iraq.
>> Pentagon
>> auditors later found dozens of examples of shoddy billing and inadequate
>> services, including evidence that a KBR subcontractor was supplying fuel
>> to
>> the Iraqi market at highly inflated prices.
>
>
>> -----------------------------------------------------
>
>> This is not a "one-off" ocassional happening, it goes on all over the
>> world,
>> when ever possible, be it selling dangerpous cars before Nader, or
>> Tobacco
>> companies decieving their customers, or Banks and Stock rackets
>> decieving
>> and stealing from their naieve investors ..................... and on
>> and
>> on and on it goes .... from the back room deals, to shonky Stock
>> markets,
>> to
>> manilpulated Money Markets, to corrupt politicians to a brain dead
>> hypnotised public.
>
>> Capitalism is founded upon: blatant theft, slavery, corruption, lies,
>> deceit, gross mis-management, con men, pathological narcissists whose
>> only
>> interest is their own greed and desire for more and more power at any
>> cost
>> that they think they can get away with.
>
>> It's the newest and greatest world wide religion - with all the usual
>> blind
>> followers and high priests and mystical unseen workings.
>
>> It is cancer in the world, destroying, cheating, raping and pillaging
>> anything of real value to humanity.
>
> What's the alternative?
> There are a lot of theories about better systems but some have never
> been tried and may, like capitalism itself, turn out to have flaws
> that disappoint the advocates when once implemented. What system that
> has actually been implemented do you advocate as superior?
>
> ---------------------------------
>
> You need to ask what's the alternative to lying, stealing, cheating,
> raping
> and pillaging anything of real value to humanity?
>
> Do you also need to ask what the alternative to war is?
>
> The alternative to preventable death of children by hunger in a world of
> surplus food production?
>
> The alternative to people being homeless, losing their life savings
> because
> of the Political, Financial & Marketing Con-men in the US that brought on
> the Mortgage meltdown while Congress and the President throw $200 billion
> plus at Freddie mac etc?
>
> Do you need to ask these things because you really don't know, or just
> don't
> want to know?
ED said:
I really don't know.
I can imagine a scenario where these evils do not occur, of course.
What I don't know is how to make that scenario come about. I truly do
not know how to make Zimbabwe into that kind of place and stay that
way. Or America.
It seems to me that the evils you describe have been with us as long
as civilization; efforts to end them by good men have been with us
that long too. Unfortunately those efforts have been unsuccessful as
your litany makes clear. So, yes, I really don't know.
-----------------------------------------------------
Sean replies:
OK, and fair enough. Your point is taken at face value.
My comments need to be seen in the context of the thread overall. When I use
the word capitalism, I use in the context of how it actually operates in the
world today. It isn't working very well. There is a lot of mis-information
around about what's good and what's bad. Some take a theoretical view about
how it is dreamed to operate well ... based on individual freedoms, and
positive self-interest. Nothing wrong with self-interest and motivation in
itself.
Such things involve an individuals values, that includes personal morals and
ethics. And the use of power. Lot's of things sound good, and seem right in
the short term. Few if any can get thier heads around the long term impact
of an applied solution. What's occuring today in many ways is a longer term
outcome of the Great Depression, WW2, and moving off the Gold Standard. It's
a long history.
There is tyranny in dictatorships, but there is also tyranny from the
majority. When the majority and so deeply influnced by a minority out of
their own self-interest as opposed to the self-interest of the majority
longer term then things get complicated and confused.
Most people are in fact decent good people. Few would ever imagine how a
psychopath could coldly go out and torture or murder dozens of people, and
get away with it for years. That's how the individuals become victims, they
are conned by the psychopath. There's degrees of psychopathy and narcissim.
Some people will do anything, and i mean anything to win, hold or to gain
power... for no reason than their own self-interest. They even believe they
are "good" and "right". They are devious for their own ends, no one elses.
Everything and anyone is expendable, anything can be rationalised away and
justified.
"Are you prepared to do what needs to be done to get the job done and
succeed?" What that means to you, or me, means something entirely different
to a small minority. Around 4%% of the population say. They'll do and say
anything to be "right" and honoured.
The capitalisic system we have today, supported by an education system and a
media is fertile ground. It comes down to an individuals values. You can't
defend yourself against someone with no higher values, especially when you'd
never ever expect that nice sounding man of lying to your face, or stabbing
you in the back, physically or metaphorically.
Mmmmm, am I waffling and avoiding your question? :-)
Maybe this will help. Capitalism never did anything. It never caused any
problem, and it never solved any problem despite the claims of folks like
Fred & Publius.
People create problems, and people solve them. The old saying of "people get
the government they deserve" is very true. What's also true is people get
the economic system they deserve, or earnt as well. There is no escape from
this. Cause leads to effect.
Look at the effect and then track back to the cause. But beware those that
create an illusion of what's going on to hide behind.
The only thing that matters is self-interest. Your own. Up to you to make
what you will. The choice is yours. In the meantime beware of people
offering you wooden nickles.
Hope that helps a little, cheers sean
