> On Aug 6, 2:53 pm, John Jones aol.com> wrote:

>> turtoni wrote:
>>

>>> In our western culture we pretty much live as small individual family
>>> units with many people living alone or with a partner and with often
>>> little contact with other possible family members.
>>> If we can accept that the body can become ill and that includes the
>>> brain then we generally consult external people from our family units
>>> that have studied an accumulation of information that has been
>>> generated over thousands of years.
>>> In our culture the most cost effective method to treat an illness is
>>> often by ingesting chemicals that have been clinically studied over
>>> decades of time.
>>> Smoking tobacco and marijuana, drinking alcohol or taking LSD to treat
>>> a mental illness does not appear to the best type of chemical options
>>> available. In fact they often appear to be counter productive. Your
>>> attraction to these types of methods likely stems from your
>>> connections to your peer (family type) groups.
>>> They might make you feel good in the short term but in the long term
>>> those peer groups will move away and at best you might be left with a
>>> few close friends or perhaps just a lover. Couple that with the fact
>>> that with some of those substances being illegal you're also
>>> endangering your future physical safety.
>>> It might be true to say that mental illness in *some* instances could
>>> be better treated by employing purely environmental factors like
>>> having a very supportive understanding family unit helping the person
>>> to get through the illness but in many cases this has proven to have
>>> been ineffective and often impossible.
>>> Taking mind altering chemicals that appear to provide the user with a
>>> better lifestyle under a controlled situation (like in going to a
>>> doctor) within the structure of our western culture would seem to our
>>> way of dealing with these situations.
>>> Most of us are not prepared to pay for the needs of others to provide
>>> the very best form of care. That's just plain and simple the facts of
>>> our culture.
>>> Non chemical types of interaction are generally extremely expensive
>>> and often (likely in part due to our cultural conditioning) the
>>> patient proves to be non-compliant.
>>> We're all often pretty self destructive. People have trouble in just
>>> even eating the right types foods in order to remain healthy as just
>>> one example.

>> I can't begin to argue for the methods which work best for mental
>> illness, because the term 'mental illness' is not a coherent idea; it is
>> a catch-word for the conditions for the implemnntation of psychiatric
>> medication regimes and other interventions. Even the psychiatrists are
>> loathe to use the term against other cultures.
>>
>> It is not in the interest of these disease-mongers to understand
>> experience and how it reflects human nature. It is merely sufficient to
>> impose an information black-out by outing an 'illness'.
>>
>> Outing an ill experience doesn't mean that you have to understand
>> anything about it. You only have to make it go away. This censorious
>> attitude, which is after all a commercial ploy, is proving disastrous
>> for vulnerable, gullible groups.
>>
>> LSD and other psychedelics like marijuana, work through entirely
>> different pronciples. That is why psychiatrists have difficulty
>> promoting them. They cannot be employed within the model of disease.

>
> John you appear to be personifying your position in respect to widely
> accepted various conditions of mental illnesses.
>
> In order to rationally debate you on this subject you'd need to
> provide me with details of *your* experiences.
>
> Millions of people have shown signs and reported that they have a
> better quality of life in the treatment of their mental illness.
>
> Could you explain why you don't believe these treatments have been
> effective from your own personal experiences.