On Feb 28, 6:13Â am, Fred Weiss
papertig.com> wrote:> On Feb 27, 7:38 pm, knucmo
433234.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 07:28:13 -0800 (PST), Jerry Kraus
>>>> If this doesn't discredit Marxist regimes in general, I don't know
>>>> what does.- Hide quoted text -
>>>You are making a small error or two. Â These aren't Marxist regimes, in
>>>most cases.
>
>> 6 of the regimes above all ascribed to the following tenets:....
>
> The point of these charts is to illustrate that communist regimes have
> been responsible for killing far more people than even the Nazis, who
> are generally considered the modern paradigm of mass murderers.
> Liberals - and of course outright Leftists - have not been overly
> eager to make this fact known - and as you see here are often in open
> denial on the subject.
>
>>> And many of the people you say were "murdered" simply
>>>died. Â People do. Â All of us.
>
>> Yeah, they simply died by rotting in the gulags, or they simply died
>> as a result of an inconvenient show-trial.
>
> Or mostly of famine caused by communist economic policies, most
> especially forced collectivization of agriculture.
>
>>>Don't confuse right-wing Capitalist propaganda with the truth.
>>>Capitalism's killed far more people than Communism ever has.
>
>> Incorrect - capitalism nor communism doesn't kill anyone - they are
>> belief systems often invoked in the name of killing people.
>
> I don't know anyone who has ever invoked capitalism, per se, as a
> justification for deliberately killing anyone. Leftists have made the
> charge to take the heat off of their own mass slaughter and otherwise
> disastrous economic policies.
>
> Capitalism has in fact been a liberator. Its ascendancy resulted in
> the abolition of slavery and the implementation of greatly expanded
> rights for women. Even apart from legal rights, it gave women for the
> first time the opportunity to be freed from the shackles and drudgery
> of housework and childrearing. It gave the poor and workers vastly
> increased opportunities to improve their standard of living and, in
> the process of raising the standard of living and greatly expanding
> the middle class, it freed children from the necessity of working
> (which had always been true in the eras prior to capitalism). etc.
>
> Fred Weiss
Well, Fred, to give a very simple illustration, during the early
industrial revolution in England -- a very capitalist period indeed --
the average rich man lived twice as long as the average member of the
lower classes. They ate better, had cleaner water, didn't have to
work as hard. In other words, the richer elements of the population
were systematically killing the poor, through social controls. Things
haven't really changed all that much. You choose to say Communists
kill, Capitalists don't. That is a lie.
