George Hammond wrote:
[...]
>>>>> "how many holes in a Golf course" requires a DEFINITION
>>>>> because it is an ARBITRARY CONVENTION, but the MOON does not
>>>>> have a "definition" it only has a PHYSICAL DESCRIPTION.
>>>>> The same is true of God:
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>If the moon were as disputed as God, and you were trying to prove the
>>>>moon's existence, you'd have to define what you were trying to prove,
>>>>such as "a natural satellite to earth, visible from earth with the
>>>>naked eye, and with an orbit of roughly 28 days",
>>>
>>> [Hammond]
>>> That is a DESCRIPTION of the Moon... not a "definition of
>>> the Moon". How many times do I have to tell you that?
>>
>>If you're trying to prove something is the moon then you need to define
>>what you mean by "moon", likewise with "god".
>>
>
> [Hammond]
> WRONG:
> A REAL object or phenomenon is typically DISCOVERED,
> DESCRIBED, and then NAMED! This goes for the MOON, the GOBI
> DESERT, and GOD. They were all "observed, described and
> named" thousands of years ago.
And yet if they weren't careful a person could mistake the sahara for
the gobi, a weather-balloon for the moon, or any number of things for
"god". Labelling or describing something as "God" doesn't prove
anything.
> Unlike the Moon and the Gobi Desert however, God happens to
> be a more sophisticated phenomenon and nearly unrecognized
> by the ignorant, the unintelliegent, exhausted and poverty
> stricken, the uneducated and particularly by the lazy
> corrupt and overpriviliged. THEREFORE my friend, the WORLD
> HAS LONG AWAITED a "simple scientific explanation and proof"
> that God exists.....
While no one seems to be denying the existence of the brain growth
deficit, there's a lot of contention as to whether it's the same thing
as "the god of the bible", and that is what you are aiming to prove, so
it's not enough to give a description or resort to metaphor.
[...]
>>> Exactly THE SAME is true of "God". There IS NO SUCH THING
>>> as a "definition" of God because God is a REAL MATERIAL
>>> PHENOMENON..... therefore God only has a description, not a
>>> definition.
>>>
>>> And furthermore, the BIBLE is precisely the historical
>>> record of that "description" by eyewitness observers, of the
>>> real material phenomenon of God.......... and NOW it turns
>>> out that the SPOG is a newly discovered physics theory which
>>> EXPLAINS said phenomeon and is CONFIRMED by direct
>>> laboratory experiment (in Psychometry).... and therefore the
>>> BIBLE IS SCIENTIFICALLY CONFIRMED TO BE TRUE........AND THE
>>> EXISTANCE OF GOD IS SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN (e.g. the
>>> eyewitness reports are SCIENTIFICALLY CONFIRMED AND
>>> EXPLAINED by the SPOG)
>>
>>You've said that the bible contained a metaphorical description of god,
>>but metaphors are no good in scientific arguments since they are too
>>vague and multiple things can fit the same metaphor.
>>
>
> [Hammond]
> Hey look heckler.... you don't have any trouble figuring
> out who Humpty Dumpty, Santa Claus, and the Easter Bunny are
> DO YOU? Reading "Grimm's Fairy Tales" or watching Walt
> Disney Cartoons about Bugs Bunney, Donald Duck and Porky Pig
> are no mystery to you, are they?
They're obvious as cartoon characters, but if I were trying to prove
that a real human who we all agree is real, was in fact the bugs-buggy
of cartoons, not just similar to him, or had a metaphorical relation to
him; then I would need something more than a description of bugs bunny
or the person in question. I could make the argument with only a
description, but people may disagree with my interpretation. If I was
trying to actually prove it, then I would need to define what I was
trying to prove in literal, logical terms. Of course that would only be
the start of the proof.
> People aren't stupid...
> especially Americans over the age of 50 or 60 or 70... or
> even some of them merely over 30, or 40 ! The BIBLE has
> been the world's number one read and best selling book for
> 2,000 YEARS for chrissakes.... are you trying to tell me
> that the BILLIONS OF READERS of the Bible don't know that
> "Jonah getting swallowed by a whale" is a message to RICHARD
> SIMMONS that he better start helping the FAT GIRLS lose some
> weight or they're going to eat him alive... and Jonah too.
> Wake the fuck up..... the SPOG is for PEOPLE LIKE YOU who
> are not smart enough (or more generally experienced enough)
> to be able to "understand the Bible". The SPOG is designed
> to RATIONALLY, LOGICALLY AND SIMPLY explain what God is
> using elementary Science, to people like you who only have a
> grade school understanding of society and life.... but who
> CAN master simple science like "Einstein's time dilation",
> "Factor analysis", "Linear Algebra", "Biology", "Cartesian
> Stem Cell Cleavage", blah, blah, blah...
There are lots of "explanations" of God, but that's very different to
there being a proof.
[...]
>>As I've already pointed out (included below), your list of logical
>>properties that qualifies something as "god" are not literal but
>>metaphorical and your target entity that qualifies as god keeps
>>changing.
>>
>
> [Hammond]
> Look... the WORLD does not INGNORE 1.3 BILLION CHRISTIANS or
> the BIBLE simply because YOU DO. Simply put, the
> phenomena of Christianity is SO ASTRONOMICALLY HUGE that any
> coherent, compelling, logical, and sufficient experimentally
> confirmed theoretical physics "SCIENTIFICI PROOF" OF IT is
> going to be IMMEDIATELY ACCEPTED BY THE WORLD AS A
>
> HISTORIC FAIT ACCOMPLI
>
> the minute they even HEAR ABOUT IT .... which is what you
> and the internet hecklers are TRYING DESPERATELY TO PREVENT!
Then why don't you write and tell them? No one is forcing you to waste
all of your time on usenet.
>>>>The brain (which creates reality, but is not fully grown) is not the
>>>>same entity as the fully grown brain
>
> [Hammond]
> Never said it was... which is WHY Hammond, the SPOG, the
> Vatican, and the whole body of Christianity knows and says
> that God lives "partly in Heaven and partly on Earth" and is
> continually "descending from Heaven to Earth" and by the
> time of "Kingdom Come" will exist entirely on Earth.
> Meanwhile the SPOG can PHYSICALLY MEASURE both "God on
> Earth" (the conscious mind) and "God in Heaven" (the
> unconscious mind) and therefore TOTAL GOD is in fact
> MEASUREABLE TO TWO DECIMAL POINTS.
>
> You have no point, and your posts are simply going round and
> round in "retorical circles".... you and the other internet
> hecklers are simply STALLING FOR TIME since you KNOW YOU'RE
> DAYS ARE NUMBERED BY THE DISCOVERY OF THE SPOG!
What exactly is being stalled? Every time I respond you get published
on usenet one more time. If it's really a proof then my attempted
criticisms should be good publicity for you. I know you love it.
