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"French Doomsday Machine" conerned.com> wrote in message
news:I2SRj.100800$rd2.9280@pd7urf3no...
| What are we talking about?
| http://lhcconcerns.com/
| In May of 2008 the largest, most expensive scientific experiment, The
Large
| Hadron Collider will be completed. This mechanical behemoth located along
| the French and Swiss border with a total estimated circumference of 17
miles
| will be the most powerful particle accelerator in existence. The principal
| behind a particle accelerator is that by speeding up the smallest elements
| of matter and then colliding them together that they can be broken down
| further into even smaller fundamental particles, just as Atoms were once
| thought to be the smallest units, so then were Quarks(Up and Down),
| Electrons, and Protons discovered.
|
| The Large Hadron Collide is hoped to discover what is referred to as the
| "Higgs Boson". Although a theoretical scalar particle theorized by Peter
| Higgs in 1974, it is actually a member of the standard model, and it is
| believed that the Higgs Boson is what gives matter "mass". To achieve the
| observation of the Higgs Boson, the LHC will be smashing these Hadrons
| (specifically Protons) together at speeds almost unimaginable to the
average
| person, at near c( .99999999 %% the speed of light).
|
| To quantify the types of collisions, it must be pointed out that two beams
| will be set to collide with each other, each beam of protons contains
| roughly 2,800 Protons with an energy of 7 TeV (1 Teraelectron Volt =
| 1.60217646 x 10-7 joules) so the combined energies will be 14 TeV.

No, no, that won't do.
See, because of the wonderful Einstein factor (v+w)/(1+vw/c^2),
you cannot just add energies, that's not relativistic.

Although
| such energies in collisions are certainly occurring every day in space,
this
| will be the first time that energies such as these will be observed on
| Earth, however what is alarming to us are the myriad of other
possibilities
| that could arise.
|
| Why haven't I heard about this before?
| Honestly, this is a good question, I seem to come accross this response a
| lot, it seems that in general most people have never heard of the LHC, or
| even particle acclerators in general, I am aware that there has been a lot
| more coverage of this in the UK then the America's (probably due to it's
| geographical location), but also I suppose the main reason why it is not
| covered that often in the states is because of a general lack of interest,
| or the belief that the general public is probably incapable of
understanding
| something so complex. Still however there are several Documentaries and
| other programs/magazines that have covered the LHC, so I'm not fully sure
| why some people have not heard about this as from a financial perspective
| it's the most expsenive (8.2 Billion Dollars) and most powerful scientific
| Expirement of al time.
|
| Why We're Concerned
| To explain the concern thoroughly and accurately it has to be stated that
| the Large Hadron Collider in Geneva is not the first particle accelerator
in
| history. In 1929 the Cyclotron, invented and developed by Ernest O.
| Lawrence, was the first particle accelerator, and from that initial
| invention over several decades we have come into a new breed of Larger and
| More Powerful Particle Accelerators. Although we have had particle
| accelerators in the past, The luminosity at which these operate has
| increased dramatically, in fact it is true that prior to the construction
of
| the RHIC (Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider) such theories as MBH
Production,
| Strangelets, and several other theories were placed on the table as
relevant
| possibilities.
|
|
| So, what's different this time?
| This is the point that has to be emphasized, this time things are quite
| different, a study was conducted after initial concerns for the RHIC were
| explored, and to their conclusion the amount of energy necessary for these
| scenarios was not sufficient. The Large Hadron Collider operates at a
total
| combined energy of 14TeV, which is a lot higher than the energies
generated
| by the RHIC, as such the possibility of Black Hole creation is a reality,
in
| fact on CERN's own web site they admit it could create Black Holes, here
is
| an excerpt from Safety at the LHC
|
|
| "If the LHC can produce microscopic black holes, cosmic rays of much
| higher energies would already have produced many more. Since the Earth is
| still here, there is no reason to believe that collisions inside the LHC
are
| harmful. Black holes lose matter through the emission of energy via a
| process discovered by Stephen Hawking. Any black hole that cannot attract
| matter, such as those that might be produced at the LHC, will shrink,
| evaporate and disappear. The smaller the black hole, the faster it
vanishes.
| If microscopic black holes were to be found at the LHC, they would exist
| only for a fleeting moment. They would be so short-lived that the only way
| they could be detected would be by detecting the products of their decay."
| We'll cover the theoretical problem of this statement in the next section.
|
|
| So, what's the problem?
| In theory (according to Hawking Radiation) any Black Hole created would
| evaporate in Femtoseconds, not having the chance to accrete any mass, and
| being essentially harmless, although this is comforting in theory, It has
| never been proven, and in fact has been questioned before. The problem is
| that although most people in the physics community believe in Hawkings
| Radiation, it has no basis in observation. In 2003 Adam D. Helfer
Published
| a paper concerning Hawking's Radiation coming to the conclusion that
| Hawking's Radiation may in fact be incorrect, and that a Black Hole would
| not lose mass in such a way. (For the full text of this document go here
| Paper By Adam D. Helfer on Hawking Radiation.)
|
| In fact since the LHC has been on the drawing board several studies and
| theories which have gained a lot of support in the scientific community
such
| as "String Theory" and "Extra-Large Hidden Dimensions" have surfaced,
which
| do indeed place the threshold for Black Hole Creation much lower than
| previously thought.
|
| The main problem lies in believing in theory as fact, every argument for
| safety made concerning Black Holes and thier creation immediately
references
| Hawking Radiation, however, if Hawking Radiation turns out to be incorrect
| then the Black Hole would continue to accrete mass at an exponential rate.
|
|
| Now Hold on, No one would willingly create a machine that would create
Black
| Holes on Purpose?
| Of course not, I highly doubt the thousands of scientists involved wish to
| usher in Oblivion any quicker than politicians, however the danger lies in
| Theory being accepted as Fact, Adam D. Helfer Published a paper recently
| which outlines a very strong possibility that Hawkings Radiation may in
fact
| not exist, which would actually fit in better with the Laws of
| Thermodynamics, at which Our current explanation and understanding of the
| nature of Black Holes has always been somewhat at Odds.
|
|
| Alright, so if a Black Hole created doesn't evaporate, what next?
|
| Here is another place that CERN's safety assessment is incapable of
| addressing, although these extremely high energy collisions each Proton
beam
| is in fact coming from opposite directions, Over 2 thousand Protons in
each
| beam will pretty much collide roughly in the middle, although no collision
| would create a particle exactly dead center, or "still", in a relative
sense
| any MBH or fundamental particle created in such a manner (even with both
| beams at a speed of .99999999 c) would be in a relative sense, at Rest, or
| to elaborate the term at rest we mean lower than the necessary escape
| velocity to escape the Earth's own gravitational pull.
|
| At that point two hypothetical scenarios exist. It would either maintain a
| rather low orbit within our planet itself, slowly accreting mass at an
| exponential rate, or it's possible it may "gravitate" to the direct center
| of the planet in which case would accrete mass very quickly
|
|
| Wait a second, I've also heard of other dangers like "Strange Matter",
| "Bubble Nucleation", and "Magnetic Monopoles", why the focus on Black
Holes?
| It is true that these scenarios are also possible, however the problem
with
| representing them accurately is the true danger can never be quantified as
| None of these have been observed, however that does not mean the risk is
| zero. The very fact that this experiment is called an experiment is the
| prove a hypothesis, if the results were truly known then this would not be
| occurring in the first place.
|
| The Large Hadron Collider is going to be forcing Protons together in a
very
| unnatural way, not only forcing them into groups of roughly 3,000 protons
| for the collisions, but exposing them to temperatures colder than space as
| well (1.9 K or -271 C). These types of collisions in a sense are unnatural
| because collisions at those speeds and temperature would never happen,
| meaning at the point of activation, no one will truly know these results
| until they occur, in a matter of Femtoseconds we would be placing the
entire
| world in potential Danger. I've seen many websites calculate
| possiblity/problem or a percentage of risk, however without many of these
| theories as proof, there is no accurate way to calcuate them, So although
| the risk potential is unknown, the risk can never be calculated at zero.
|
| Although the credence given Strange Matter production, and it's subsequent
| catalytic behavior by the scientific community is not always mutual.
Certain
| types of Strange Matter could be formed that would catalytically convert
all
| matter that it touches into strange matter as well, although this is not
as
| likely as creating a Black Hole, it's worth mentioning because it is a
| possibility.
|
|
| I want to learn more, where can I go?

Egypt to see the pyramids, Ankhor Wat, Taj Mahal, cathedrals all over
Europe...
there is no shortage of follies available to help you learn what stupidity
is all about.

| The internet is a good place, it brought you here, didn't it? Of course
you
| could always visit the links on the site, and take part in our discussion
on
| the forum, I would recommend familiarizing yourself with all the issues,
and
| a basic understanding of Black Holes won't hurt either, of course I can
| always recommend reading A Brief History of Time or the Universe in a
| Nutshell there is always Google, for as many people as there are
concerned,
| there are people who believe the danger is zero, it's important for you,
to
| properly evaluate the facts and come to your own conclusion, of course we
| would like your support, however, the goal of this web site is
information,
| discussion, action, and rationale, we are real people after all, and so
are
| you.
|
| Thinking outside the box can't hurt either, I encourage you to Talk to a
| Professor at a local college,

That's the worst thing to do, he's a going to be a ranting lunatic like
Carlip. They are all sheeple.

write a Letter to CERN, do whatever you need
| to do to inform yourself and make an informed decision, any contribution
you
| make, even discussing with one other single person in the world, has the
| possibility to make all the difference.
|
| Links..
|
| Large Hadron Collider
|
| http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider
|
| CERN
|
| http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CERN
|
| LHC Concerns
|
| http://lhcconcerns.com/
|
| National Geograhic - The God Particle
|
| http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2008/03/god-particle/achenbach-text
|
| BBC News - Lab Fireball May Have Been Black Hole
|
| http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4357613.stm
|
| An Open Letter To Stephen Hawking
|
| http://lhcconcerns.com/LHCConcerns/Forums/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=72
|
| Black Holes On Demand (George Street Journal)
|
|
http://www.brown.edu/Administration/George_Street_Journal/vol26/26GSJ10a.html
|
| CBC News - LHC
|
| http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/science/lhc.html
|
| New York Times - LHC Dangerous?
|
|
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/15/science/15cern.html?ex=1336881600&en=7c25f6782d7029e7&ei...
|
| LHC Legal Defense Fund
|
| http://www.lhcdefense.org/
|
| MySpace STOP CERN Website
|
| http://www.myspace.com/stopcern
|
| Risk Evaluation Forum
|
| http://www.risk-evaluation-forum.org/
|
| YouTube music video Of The Atom Smasher (LHC) Black Hole Generator
|
| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOFSrS03wjE#GU5U2spHI_4
|
| French Build Doomsday Machine
|
| http://www.misunderstooduniverse.com/France_Builds_Doomsday_Machine.htm
|
|