> I'm not surprised that the real term for what happened isn't being used
>
> Freddie Mac/Fannie May NATIONALISED by supposedly Right Wing Republican
> Government
>
> Chavez and Castro roll over laughing out loud.......... as am I.
>
> THX, and interesting analysis. And I agree, the people Society are
> responsible for what happens, individually and collectively. What's needed,
> imho, is a change in attitudes across the board, and an honest discussion
> about what values really are important to lead a happy successful life.
>
> Now, something to challenge your opinion about TRAFFIC LIGHTS -----
>
> Accident-free zone: The German town which scrapped all traffic lights and
> road signs
> By ALLAN HALL Last updated at 8:05 PM on 23rd June 2008
>
> Peter Hilbricht, a police officer in charge of traffic planning, added that
> the main intersection generated about 50 accidents a year before the
> changes.
>
> 'The number plummeted,' he said. 'It has been a sea-change in German
> attitudes as much as anything else.'
>
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1028740/Accident-fr...
>
> What's needed, as I said, is a change in "attitude" .... surely this example
> proves that point?
>
> cheers sean
>
> "death from above" hotmail.com> wrote in messagenews:9e33c5aa-aa83-4dba-9e8f-2e74f70b5471@r66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>

>> Some people are alarmed by the federal bailout of Freddie Mac/Fannie
>> May--or FF, but we shouldn't  be surprised. Government didn't so much
>> take over those companies as finally--and honestly--admit that they
>> had been government enterprises all along. As such, FF had acted less
>> responsibly than most private companies. FF always knew that it had
>> the backing and support of the government. It didn't have to be
>> accountable. Also, it's the government that had pushed for 'fair'
>> loans. "Fair share" or "fair loans", whenever it's decided by
>> politicians or bureaucrats, there's likely to be trouble ahead. But,
>> we must not lose sight of who put the politicians in positions of
>> power. The people did. So, the people are ultimately responsible.

>

>> Political discourse on both the left and right rarely blame the people
>> and always scapegoats the politicians on the other side. This is a way
>> to win votes--by making people feel like helpless victims of evil
>> politicians of the other party. But, it's really liberal politicians
>> elected by liberal people 'oppressing' conservative people, or it's
>> conserative polticians elected by conservative people 'oppressing'
>> liberal people.  It all comes back down to the people.

>

>> We can argue that it's the government that made it possible for people
>> to be reckless with their spending, borrowing, and so on. But, the
>> government that allowed the people to be reckless were put in power by
>> the people.   Rich, middle-income, and poor people are all to blame.
>> But, more blame must be put on the rich and the poor than those in the
>> middle. Many people in the middle want to work, save, and spend
>> sensibly. It's the poor--the welfare, as opposed to the working, poor--
>> who want to leech off everyone else. And, it's the rich people who
>> want people to borrow and spend like crazy. Businesses want consumers
>> to consume. They don't care where people get the money. Whether it's
>> retail business, real estate markets, or the service industry,
>> businesses want people to spend, spend, and spend. If people don't
>> have money to spend, businesses want people to borrow and spend. And,
>> credit card companies want people to keep borrowing and borrowing and
>> spending and spending. Credit card companies make commissions on every
>> purchase and make a killing on high interest rates.

>

>> Now, no business forces people to behave stupidly and irresponsibly,
>> but they use all their might--through lobbying efforts, laws, ads,
>> promotions, etc--to make people believe that material consumption is
>> the very meaning of life. This mentality has become so pervasive that
>> having the ability to consume like a maniac has almost become an
>> American Right. And, since it's a Right, it must be provided for
>> EVERYONE--even the working poor and welfare poor. So, we have the FF
>> fiasco. For some reason, the government AND businesses figured
>> EVERYONE should have a right to buy a home. Never mind the down
>> payment. Forget such 'elitist' and 'racist' ideas which 'unfairly'
>> discrimate disproportionately against minority borrowers.  Everyone
>> should have the right to buy a McMansion with no down payment. As for
>> the future, don't worry, be happy. Just have faith that interest rates
>> will remain low forever, that the economy will never have downturns,
>> and the government will always be there to save your ass.

>

>> FF fiasco is the result of the collusion of worst of government and
>> business. Most businesses may be economical and smart in running their
>> own affairs, but they don't want consumers to be economical and smart.
>> Most businesses want people to spend beyond their means. Most
>> businesses think of maximum short term profit. They want the people to
>> spend and spend and then borrow and spend. Businesses don't care if
>> people become burdened with debt. Businesses want people to come to
>> their stores, shops, restaurants, casinos, or whatever and spend as
>> much as possible. And, this borrowing/spending binge has been going on
>> for a long time. Mall culture has become American culture. It's become
>> so pervasive that everyone now demands it as a right from cradle to
>> grave. First place kids are taken to isn't the church but the mall.
>> So, even for those with less to spend, there's this idea that they
>> should be allowed to borrow freely and spend and spend. Capitalist
>> idiocy and socialist idiocy go together. Is it any surprise that Latin
>> America is both more capitalist and socialist than the US?
>> The elite in Venezuela has practiced nothing but lavish spending on
>> themselves in boom times, and they put forth their crass lifestyle as
>> the national ideal. Poor people felt left out and voted in Hugo Chavez
>> who promises goodies for everyone. Idiot rich begat idiot poor.

>

>> There's a way to be rich and dignified, and there is a way to be poor
>> and dignified. But, with consumer culture as our national core, forget
>> it. The only message the rich have for us is "I got mine and F you".
>> Businesses, which have so much power in our country, spread the
>> message that your life aint worth shi* and you aren't cool unless
>> you're a maniacal materialistic consumer. Girls grow up watching
>> Hannah Montana. Girls used to play with Barbie Dolls, but now they
>> really want to become Barbie Dolls.  Poor people in this country are
>> without dignity. Instead of assessing their economic situation and
>> valuing hardwork, saving, and thrift--the virtues promoted by Benjamin
>> Franklin--, the poor--even those on welfare--emulate celebrities on
>> TV. Welfare mothers give birth to sons whose big dream in life is a
>> diamond studded bling bling.
>> This was not the value system of the 'greatest generation'. The people
>> who lived through the Great Depression wanted honest work, maintained
>> family values, and a sense of individual dignity. Even the New Deal
>> was not about mindless materialism--as the book "Grand New Party" by
>> Ross Douthat points out. New Deal, good or bad, tried to put people to
>> work, not put them on welfare. It urged people to save and raise
>> families, not spend like lunatics like there's no tomorrow.

>

>> Our culture is all screwed up because liberals, who say they represent
>> the poor and the working class, are richer than conservatives on
>> average. Also, it's liberals who use capitalism--media and
>> entertainment--to spread the worst kind of crass materialism.  Jerry
>> Springer, Rolling Stone magazine, MTV, and Hollywood are not bastions
>> of conservatism. But, conservatives--some of them anyway--are
>> ridiculous in thinking that more free markets will solve all
>> problems.
>> Businesses--capitalism in action--have promoted the New Mindless. They
>> did it in the Jazz Age 20s which led to the Great Depression. And, it
>> happened again, and we are facing a credit crisis all over the globe.
>> Economic well-being is generally determined by consumer spending, but
>> crazy spending leads to severe economic downturn--and we can't just
>> keep borrowing forever. But, even when the foundations of spending
>> habits are shaky, politicians don't say anything. Since the economy
>> grows during time of binge spending and whoever's in power want to
>> take credit for the good times, no one says anything about where it's
>> all leading to. In the 1990s, people who invested in bubble tech
>> stocks thought they were all going to be millionaires and spent like
>> crazy. It led to the collapse of the stock market in 1999. And, the
>> same thing happened with the housing market, but no one said anything.
>> Democrats believe it is the Right of everyone to borrow and spend like
>> crazy, and Republicans wanted to take all the credit for the economic
>> growth under Bush. It turns out much of the economic growth both under
>> Clinton and Bush were illusory.  In both cases, things got way out of
>> hand due to collusion between business and government.
>> Conservatism isn't just about free markets but about moral
>> responsibility. But, the GOP has come under the control of business
>> groups whose only interest is that people borrow and spend. As for
>> moral values among conservatives, too much of it's tied to religious
>> tenets. There is little  philosophical sense of morality among
>> conservatives.  Instead, we just have a lot of holier-than-thou
>> morality--such as on abortion. Being pro-life is fine, but a person
>> can be pro-life and still borrow and spend like an idiot. A person can
>> be pro-gun and still borrow and spend like an idiot.  Now, spending is
>> necessary, and our economy would indeed sink without spenders. But,
>> the

>
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -