On Aug 11, 7:15Â pm, John Jones aol.com> wrote:
> Externalism - that having or not having true beliefs are dependent on
> the environment.
>
> Putnam's classic argument for externalism starts with a thought
> experiment: imagine that water comes in two forms - H2O on earth, and
> XYZ on twin-earth. So, when both earthmen and twin-earthmen (who are
> physically alike) say that 'water quenches thirst' they are expressing
> different beliefs. This is externalism's claim.
>
> There are many arguments against this idea - that the content of a
> belief is dependent on external factors. The opposite argument is
> internalism - that beliefs are an intrinsic property of the individual.
>
> Both externalism and internalism are wrong, it seems to me. First, for
> the externalist, there is no way that either H2O or XYZ can be
> identified except by water. It is water that allows us to distinguish
> H2O or XYZ from the cup that holds it, or the river from the river-bed.
>
> For the internalist position, we have simply an environmental
> minimalism, veiled by the term 'psychological'. The internalist merely
> limits the extent of the externalist environment to the body. The body
> then, inexplicably, becomes the receptacle of thoughts (as a
> 'psychological' condition), yet the problem of the mind-matter,
> internal-external interface, remains.
>
> But we can deliver a double-whammy against both positions. Both
> internalism and externalism rest on classical notions of belief. The
> ontological ambiguity of the term 'belief' is historically entrenched,
> and you will be hard put to make sense of it. All we need claim is that
> a 'belief' is neither internal nor external but is a public document. An
> ontological or physical placement of that document is irrelevant to the
> use we make of it. Where there is only one proposition publically or
> individually presented, such as 'this is water', then we can have no
> belief about the matter.
>
> For example, we have no belief or knowledge that one and one are two -
> they simply are two, for no alternative is on offer. Granted, we may
> create an alternative - that, for example, in quantum reality one and
> one may not be two; or that we are mad and cannot make sense of
> addition. But whether the alternatives we create are ontological, or
> mental, etc., one and one are two per se is neither an internal belief,
> nor an external truth. However, once we are given another alternative -
> that one and one are not two, then we may decide on the evidence which
> is right - we would come to a pragmatic decision, i.e. have a belief,
> about which is right. But coming to a pragmatic decision, or believing
> which of two or more propositions are the right ones, is not a property
> of the propositions that make up the belief.
Imagine you could offer the best alternatives that are available to
your loved one that has a need to kill themselves or just simply wish
to imagine that everybody was against them..
It's been done John. And where we are at is the best we have..
You can imagine all you want with the others to be like you; what else
can you imagine? To be functional. To be able to operate successfully
within the whatever small farm in the middle of nowhere raising sheep
and laughing at the birds chirping and flying around or to be happy to
hustle within a bustle of a big city playing upon a drum with the lord
at their side.
Whatever stories they want. We want them to be happy. Being unhappy is
not what we want.
Personally the UK and it's culture (class) and weather was not
something i could bear and i'm fortunate enough to be able to have
sailed away to better cultural conditions and better weather systems
that provide me with more happiness as one example.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2NrIALcNOw