In article
comcast.com>,
"Spaceman" wrote:
> Timberwoof wrote:
>> In article
comcast.com>,
>> "Spaceman" wrote:
>>>>> Timberwoof wrote:
>>>> In article
comcast.com>,
>>>> "Spaceman" wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Mike Jr. wrote:
>>>>>> On Sep 1, 12:41 pm, Sanny
hotmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>> Ptolemaic system considered earth to be in Center of Universe and
>>>>>>> created paths for other planets as complex as possible.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> [snip crap]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Disprove GTR by direct experimental proof. Otherwise you are just
>>>>>> displaying your ignorance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Every time someone uses GPS to navigate they are running an
>>>>>> experiment proving GTR. GPS wouldn't work without the GTR
>>>>>> corrections applied to the NAV equations.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is the most used bullshit supplied by the "relativist church".
>>>>> GPS uses "absolute positioning" and such "absolutes" are against
>>>>> GTR's most basic concepts. (no absolutes)
>>>>> If it did not use "absolute positioning, it could never find
>>>>> other "absolute positions".
>>>>
>>>> That's wrong. They had to adjust the clocks on the GPS satellites to
>>>> run faster to make up for their speed in orbit. A young engineer on
>>>> the project pointed this out, but few believed him. They either
>>>> didn't believe Special Relativity or didn't believe it applied to
>>>> their situation. Nevertheless, they installed a switch on the
>>>> control panel that would select the mode for the clock. It was
>>>> called the Einstein Switch.
>>>>
>>>> They found within a day or two that they had to leave it in the ON
>>>> position. Newer versions of the control panel don't have the
>>>> Einstein Switch.
>>>
>>> So, you agree you had to "alter" the clocks, yet you don't agree
>>> that the clocks malfunctoned.
>>
>> They "malfunctioned" precisely as Special Relativity predicted they
>> would, and the fix worked precisely as Special Relativity predicted it
>> would.
>
> I do not dispute that.
> I dispute the stupidity that states "time changed" even though the
> truth is the "decay rate" changed because of simple "Newtonian" forces
> and the same forces have always been problems for clocks.
> The cause was not "time changing rate" the cause was the clock
> malfunctioning because of "sourrounding forces" that vary.
> It is the oldest problem known in clocks and for some stupid
> ass reason the "decay rate" change was considered to be time changing,
> yet time is an abstract created by humans to count the motion of mass
> and abstract such to a ratio.
You could explain how this works. Other than things like a ship's
rocking interfering with the operation of an on-board pendulum, I'm not
aware of any effects in Newtonian physics than can do what you say.
>> However, since the satellites are not in that "rest" frame, but in
>> moving frames of reference, Lorentz transformations must be applied to
>> their sense of time to make up for the difference. The adjustments
>> made according to predictions made by Special Relativity worked
>> precisely.
>
> Actually the satelites are moving in the larger rest frame of Earth.
> They are moving wrt to the at rest Earth frame.
> Without using the "at rest Earth frame, you can not tell what is moving.
> Is the Earth moving or the satelites.
> We use the satelites as the moving part and the Earth as the
> "stationery and absolute position point".
> You can not do such the other way around since then the Earth clocks
> would supposedly need to be adjusted instead and guess what..
> That would not work.
> simple as that.
That's just verbal folderol.
:)
The rule is that since the satellites go through a longer spacelike
line, the experience time slower than the Earth does. It's all in
Penrose's book.
>> Get a clue yourself. In fact, I did, on the roof of the University of
>> Iowa physics building on a summer program for high school students.
>>
>> Get a clue yourself. If you had been a scientist working on GPS, you
>> would have fought against the Einstein Switch, and you would have
>> scratched your head to try to explain why day after day the locations
>> calculated by the system were getting farther and farther off.
>
> The Einstein switch can not work on the Earth side.
So?
> That is simple and factual proof that the clocks malfunctioned and
> The Earth is used as an "ABSOLUTE" position of reference for
> GPS to work at all.
No, it's proof that you don't understand how it works.
:)
> Get a clue.. still.
> Right now you are only in the religious side of the Einstein switch.
> :)
> Or do you think the system would work correctly with an Einstein
> switch on the Earth based clocks only?
I won't be drawn into questions that are posed as two incorrect
alternatives by someone who forgets to actually present his proofs and
tries to bludgeon me by calling me stupid.
:)
However, I will adopt your stupid habit of concluding insulting
sentences with a smiley face.
:)
