Re: Drug legalisation
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Re: Drug legalisation         

Group: alt.philosophy · Group Profile
Author: Robert Cohen
Date: Aug 7, 2007 14:00

On Aug 7, 2:40 pm, "jusholm" talktalk_REMOVETHIS_.net> wrote:
> Legal or Illegal
>
> There would seem to be only two possible statuses for a substance to have in
> a society. It is either banned or it is allowed. However there is one other
> option and it is the worst of all. That is where a substance is officially
> banned, but unofficially tolerated to a large extent. This is the situation
> in the western world that cannabis, cocaine and heroine benefit from.
>
> Let's face it if the US and Europe really chose to clamp down on these drugs
> they could. If there was a true war on drugs, and I do mean armies and
> aeroplanes, then the supply of drugs would dry up. If life imprisonment were
> mandatory for dealing even small amounts, as it is for other forms of
> voluntary manslaughter, then suppliers would dry up. If even a 10th of the
> money that was spent on the cold war were directed at tackling drugs within
> a few years the drug problem as we have it now would be a distant memory.
>
> These measures would be severely draconian. It would require the invasion of
> quite a few countries and a field by field eradication of crops. In past
> such campaigns, especially in heavily forested or mountainous areas, have
> been very costly in lives, resources and politically and were often
> unsuccessful. It would also require building whole new prison communities
> and seriously criminalising large portions of the population. All this to
> stop people doing something they voluntarily choose to do, taking
> particular, relatively harmless substances, for most consumers when taken in
> moderation.
>
> I have personally used, and misused, cannabis when I was a lot younger but
> never cocaine or heroine. It did me quite a lot of harm I believe but I
> really did over do it and was probably somewhat susceptible anyway. If I had
> had access to less strong version of the drug, such as home grown or natural
> plant pieces, I am sure I would have preferred them. The effect they have is
> milder, less hallucinogenic and not as prolonged. The concentrated resin
> that was normally available was very strong, made you feel dopey for hours
> and was probably mixed with other drugs.
>
> Even if this were possible it would come at a high price. There would be a
> world war over drugs. Admittedly most of the countries where drugs are
> produced are in no state to defend themselves against two of the greatest
> economic and military superpowers the world has ever known, or from the UN.
> But within the developed powers themselves our civil liberties would be
> severely undermined. Large percentages of the populations under arms, in
> jail or on the wrong side of the law is not great for democracy. Also any
> global war effort would not inhibit the domestic production and laboratory
> synthesis, of drugs such as speed, ecstasy, crank and the like, and would
> probably encourage their take up by users and suppliers.
>
> All this however would be preferable to the situation now. Illegal but
> unofficially tolerated. Tolerated because the problem doesn't seem to be as
> bad as the only possible solution. OK so maybe as much as 50%% of crime in
> our societies is drug related. OK so people are destroying themselves
> everyday from the inside out. OK so many of our young men and women are
> using up their talent and energy on a chemical rush. Well it's not OK and it
> is getting worse.
>
> Drugs, and the criminal organisations that control them, are gaining in
> power not weakening. They are pouring resources gained from crime into
> legitimate business and into the corruption of public representatives. Drugs
> are doing to our society and civilisation what they are doing to
> individuals. They are eating it alive like a cancer picking on our bones.
>
> If there are only three possible courses to be taken in response to drugs,
> and the one we are taking, not illegal or legal, is the worst, then we
> should take one of the other two. Either we destroy drugs at every level of
> production and distribution, perhaps even consumption through regular random
> testing of the population, or we legalise these specific substances. After
> all there are thousands of users and years of experience to show that most
> will not do themselves too much long term harm particularly if they control
> their use.
>
> Legalising would have major attractions. One it would stop the build up, at
> a stroke, of the financial power of the criminal organisations. Secondly it
> would make these drugs comparatively cheap, so that users would no longer
> have to take up crime to afford to use them, and could carry on living in
> and contributing to society. Not only this but the growers of these plants
> would be able to sell to legitimate companies rather than to gangsters,
> releasing themselves and their countries from the iron grip of 'plato o
> plomo', silver or lead, bribe or a bullet.
>
> I am sure that it would also effect the drugs themselves. Obviously they
> would be pharmaceutically clean rather than mixed with any number of
> substances. Less concentrated versions of the drug could also be offered.
> Now the drugs must be shipped across borders in their most concentrated, and
> therefore easily hidden, forms. If the trade was open this would not be
> necessary and more benign less powerful forms of the drugs could be offered
> as safer alternatives.
>
> A situation, somewhat as the one during prohibition in the US, pertains now.
> Instead of people having the odd glass of wine, as now, at that time people
> would drink hard spirits that had been crudely produced. They had to get
> these drinks at a speakeasy, an underground club run by criminals who paid
> off officials to maintain their businesses. Having travelled often quite far
> to get into a club people would not just have a nice chat and a couple of
> beers. More likely they would get completely drunk with all the consequences
> that can have, and pay through the nose for it as well. The similarities are
> inescapable and the solution, or at least the way forward, is the same as
> well.
>
> The availability of relatively cheap, clean, legal and widely distributed
> recreational substances would greatly under cut the market in the remaining
> illegal and more dangerous drugs. Just as with prohibition the criminals
> were cut out of the market almost over night. Not only would great swathes
> of the population no longer have to have a contact with a criminal
> organisation to get access to them but the criminals would not have so easy
> access to the consumers. They would not be in a position to offer them to
> try this or that new drug.
>
> Methamphetamine, crank, crack and speed would most likely become a very
> specialist interest for those who do not know better. These drugs are only
> of any interest, to even hard core users, because they are hopelessly
> addicted to them or they can no longer afford the better and less harmful
> alternatives. This also has a parallel with the prohibition era, instead of
> drinking hard liquor produced in the back words or smuggled illegally today
> we see a very different type of alcohol use in the US. People can pop into a
> local bar for 'quick one', or two, they can enjoy a wonderfully produced,
> subtle bottle of wine or a cocktail. The state has regulated this industry
> ever since.
>
> Many are worried about the state having any involvement in such powerful
> substances. Will the state not just take over and gain the power once held
> by gangsters they ask? Even if this were true it would be preferable to the
> present situation where large numbers of our top officials are involved in
> the drug trade, either directly or by omission, and are not accountable to
> the public for this. If the state is not trust worthy enough to oversee the
> distribution of drugs then should we really be allowing them to control
> nuclear submarines, surely a more serious responsibility?
>
> However like any other major commodity it should, and would almost certainly
> be, controlled by companies. Companies that are in competition, regulated by
> the state, investors, the media and the market. Why the state would have to
> have any more control of this market than it does for food, alcohol and
> tobacco is hard to see? It could legitimately tax, administer and regulate
> it but that would be all.
>
> Some are worried that there would be a great increase in the use of these
> substances if they were legalised. I have to say I agree if we are talking
> in terms of the numbers of people using them occasionally, that certainly
> can be said for alcohol since prohibition. However if we look at the overall
> strength of the drugs this may be different. The milder, and mostly more
> enjoyable and less dangerous, forms of the plants would contain much less of
> the active chemicals. Also the ways of taking them may look quite different.
> Instead of smokers having to mix concentrated resin with tobacco they could
> smoke the plant directly helping many to cut down the health risk they take.
>
> Cocaine is normally inhaled into the nose which can cause severe damage to
> that sensitive membrane. This is partly because this is a very efficient way
> of getting it into the blood system. If legalised cocaine could be dissolved
> in special 'soft' drinks, in different concentrations, just like alcohol is
> today. I am sure many users would opt for mild solutions most of the time,
> just as they do with alcohol, so as to pace their intake. The infrastructure
> is already there in some pubs to serve such solutions and to ensure that
> minors do not have access to them. Also there is some control on over
> consumption and problem consumption from the licensing laws and licensees.
>
> In Holland cannabis is legal to buy and consume in special coffee shops.
> Again this will prevent children from having access and prevents the easy
> removal of the drug from this controlled place. This seems to be a very
> sensible way of administering such a substance and ensures users are in a
> sociable and open environment. Another good thing about coffee shops is that
> alcohol is not a large part of their offering and cannabis and alcohol are
> well known not to mix well or healthily.
>
> Heroin is given in clinics in Switzerland, and the addicts are regarded as
> patients. This has had great effect in reducing drug related crime, and the
> cost associated with it, and the negative individual consequences of drug
> addiction. Heroine itself is not a terribly harmful drug and long term
> users, given a regular and clean supply, can function almost normally with
> no severe side effects. Gradually many can start to come to terms with their
> addiction and perhaps even escape it, just like many smokers do (nicotine is
> perhaps even more addictive than heroine).
>
> If recreational drug use was legitimised in our societies then the whole
> powerful mechanisms of those societies can go to work regulating the use of
> them. Friends and family would monitor people's use, just like they do today
> with alcohol, and give people some feedback and help. People could more
> openly ask for help, education of the public about the true effects could be
> more easily achieved and better techniques for helping addicts could be
> researched. Also the real social causes of large numbers of people, feeling
> the need of these substances can be better addressed when we no longer can
> turn a blind eye to their fate.
>
> Maybe this is the real reason behind our unwillingness to legalise these
> drugs? Do we think it is really not our problem? I believe our democratic
> governments would legalise tomorrow if they thought they would survive the
> political backlash. Well it is becoming our problem and I think it is
> problem that will outweigh all the others our civilisation has faced in its
> history. The next generation has just about to a man or woman tried illegal
> drugs. They know where they can get them and nearly all have friends who use
> regularly.
>
> More and more of them are becoming pray to the criminals and their
> dangerous, expensive and concentrated drugs and their offers of employment.
> Also who knows what new substances are being cooked up, in legal and illegal
> laboratories, right now which will make cannabis and cocaine look even more
> benign in comparison to crank, lsd, crack and their cousins.
>
> More of the wealth of our society is going towards corrupting the police,
> customs, business, banking, producers, producer countries and criminals
> themselves. We can no longer pretend this problem is going away and no
> longer procrastinate. Indecision is leading to the worst of both worlds
> filling the pockets of criminals and corrupting our societies. We either
> truly declare war, and I do mean globally, with all the terrible
> consequences that means or we take the only other option available and
> accept the users as legitimate members of our society.
>
> Do not misunderstand me, I do not want legalisation but I am in favour of it
> and am arguing for it. It is the best, and only I think, option open to our
> societies, and is probably inevitable anyway. How much longer can democratic
> societies refuse to recognise the rights of large numbers of their citizens
> to do something that doesn't harm other people? Normally the principle of
> liberal society is 'be free to do what you want to the extent it does not
> conflict too much with other's freedoms'. After all these chemicals exist
> and is it surprising how effective they are.
>
> If there is a creator God then It must have created these plants as well.
> Anyone who has smoked cannabis will testify how suitable that plant is for
> effecting the mood of a human being. Also whenever I go to the dentist I am
> very pleased if they have some chemicals based on cocaine's properties. I
> can still remember the days when you either got gas or endured the pain, and
> children had to endure a lot of pain. If we could snap our fingers to remove
> all these plants from the world would we do it? If God exists did It do it?
>
> But with making it illegal we are trying to do just that, if a global, and
> internal, war on drugs was really pursued we would be really trying to do
> that. As it is at the moment these drugs and criminals are pretty well
> tolerated by society and officialdom. This is even worse than war because of
> its effect on the corruption of our society, its encouragement of synthetic
> and concentrated drugs, the effect on users, the corruption of various
> coutries and communities around the world and many other ways. So we are
> left with only one option that must be taken sometime, and the sooner it is
> taken the better it will be.

a good essay, and appropriate to a philosophy n.g.'s consideration,
because the poster elucidates the dilemma

there is one fact that i know for sure: the usa is complicated and
contradictory

the drug phenomenon brings out some convoluted realities bodies, whatever that means>

i have posted a little about "medical pot," and i know of no other
domestic issue in which there are more ..uh....ironies and
intellectual lies starting with the half dozen states that voted "aye"
duly through their individual constitutional referenda and yet were
subsequently "put down" by a merciless u.s. supreme court majority

well, i notice the chief justice himself had a brain seizure of some
kind a week or so ago, and perhaps that or another personal affliction
would eventually change a supreme legalistic mind
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