> "turtoni" fastmail.net> wrote in message
>
> news:9ea80d6d-0ace-4fc3-b974-782ff35f21f0@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 14, 6:05 pm, "tooly" bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>

>> "turtoni" fastmail.net> wrote in message

>

>>news:45697842-31ee-4fd4-befe-c0c892c98c73@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...

>

>>>> tooly:
>>>> You give all the reasons why I stay with the Christian 'story' and
>>>> model,

>

>>> Indeed. I made the bigtime.
>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0FBi5Rv1ho

>

>> Interesting video.
>> What I got from it:
>> 1. A cancer grows
>> 2. from a single cell
>> 3. or a thought ?
>> 4. the dynamic is similar?
>> 5. and we reach for our egotistical big time like cancer cells perhaps?

>

>> Questions:
>> 1. does that mean the constructs of mass mind were formed from 'cancer'
>> like
>> growths (so called 'leaders' being like cancers)?

>

>> I reject that because cancer must be synonymous to chaos and we 'reorder'
>> thought as we go to make it usable. Stimulus does not always yeild cancer,
>> but can be catalyst for postive growth as well.

>

>> ha...that's what I got out of the video anyway. These things are so
>> subjective (video interpretations), it would be crazy to see what everyone
>> else might get out of a particular video. Remember how Manson went on a
>> killing spree based upon how he interpreted Helter Skelter.

>>>Perhaps most people are stupid and stubborn; leaving aside the
>>>mentally ill.
>>>Do you really go to church and sit with a bunch of stupid and stubborn
>>>people worshiping god knows what floats around in their brains?

>
> I relate to their need as my own.
>

>>>Perhaps church is a good place to hook up with contacts in order to
>>>increase the investments.

>
> The church has become corrupted...granted.  But enough good remains there
> that I'm personally not ready to give it up.  Though the walls crumble,
> perhaps the framework remains sound enough for new construction.  We don't
> need another NEW church though; there are so many differing possibilities as
> it is.
>

>>>A kind of country club. I'd go along with that.
>>>But to try and philosophically support the claims of the religious is
>>>a joke. What would be evil. That would be a reference to my "move to
>>>Iran". At least they attempt to adhere to the written words. Our
>>>cultures have been there and done that and moved along..

>
> ...and we have lost our moral center.  A dogmatic approach to religion has
> been necessary through the ages due to the wide spectrum of human capacity
> to understand; and I don't think even the smartest of us really understand
> all that well, if at all.   But the message was vital nonetheless.   I think
> the Christian story [sic] is more or less a blueprint about how to work the
> machine...the human machine.  It was an accumulation of human wisdom put
> down in, yes, story.   Too much of the story gets chruned up in the wisdom
> however, and too many miss the point [as I see it anyway].  The message was
> about Loving...which as I have argued before, was the essential mammalian
> trait of nurture, concentrated and magnified, that has allowed us to
> seperate ourselves from the animals.  Intelligence gave us domain as another
> animal...but loving and the conscience it inspired and empathetic reach to
> include a much greater sense of self has been what has given us a torch by
> which to exist the jungles and build something better, worthwhile [that
> intelligence might survive].  But that last mouthful is hardly
> inspirational.  Better to infiltrate via a mass of human story telling with
> heroes and villians and morals.
>

>>>We've clearly picked out and chosen the things we've considered to be
>>>reasonable from the Christian scriptures and created a healthy
>>>POWERFUL society.

>
> Powerful perhaps...but 'healthy'...that is questionable.   What is the state
> of human relationships?   Any society's health will be fundamentally
> attached to the health of the nuclear family unit.   Our modern 'values' as
> you say, often stand against that nuclear family for sake of inclusion of
> things that should not be included IF that family unit were paramount [as it
> should be].
>

>>>The local parasites that adhere to the very written
>>>words reside within this societies protections but are not
>>>representative of our values.

>
> then perhaps "our" society has been hijacked??
> I take the Christian model very seriously and have to question a certain
> manifest in it's wisdom.  If nothing else, it has been the model, more or
> less, for nearly two thousand years of social evolution and has become
> engrained I think.   I identify with a 'higher order' in our midst...a
> higher consciousness...perhaps a mass consciousness we cannot see well...but
> something higher than we are as individuals that gives a mystical sense to
> Christ.   I believe a Christ was manifest [as mentioned].