"Roy Jose Lorr"
comcast.net> wrote in message
news:dfqdnSQW5frlN1janZ2dnUVZ_qmlnZ2d@comcast.com...> Mary Hogan wrote:
>
>>
>> "Roy Jose Lorr"
comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:gfudnfVFNrjDA1janZ2dnUVZ_sCtnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>> Mary Hogan wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Roy Jose Lorr"
comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:eLadnQ_I3J2g4ljanZ2dnUVZ_q6mnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>> Mary Hogan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Roy Jose Lorr"
comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:I_qdneYehNXKblnanZ2dnUVZ_sOrnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc) wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dear Roy Jose Lorr:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Roy Jose Lorr"
comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:QJ-dneZY1c_bSlnanZ2dnUVZ_sKqnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc) wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Dear Roy Jose Lorr:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Roy Jose Lorr"
comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:xrKdnWzblYwdWFnanZ2dnUVZ_gidnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mary Hogan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Roy Jose Lorr"
comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:_P2dnTRUorNC61nanZ2dnUVZ_q-jnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Matter exists on the motion created by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nothingness drawing Matter back into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Nothingness from whence it came."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not qualified for any debate about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> physics, and so I'm just thinking out loud.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Time is missing from this.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Time is a human construct.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You used the word "motion". Please define this
>>>>>>>>>> word, without using either "space" or "time".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The universe does not need human definitions in
>>>>>>>>> order to run.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You post to a newsgroup, as if this was news. This requires
>>>>>>>> communication, an effort on the part of two parties. You challeged
>>>>>>>> "Mary Hogan" to give reason to invoke "time", as if that was some
>>>>>>>> mysterious error on the part of Mankind.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now define "motion", and "run" without invoking "time" or "space".
>>>>>>>> Please don't hide under Buddhist mysticism this early.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rub two sticks together, the motion involved is not time dependent.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Not if you're not there to witness it.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why can't you see this? It take time to rub.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There is only the eventuating of the future.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From what I've learned the future is only a millionth chance to get it
>>>> right. I have learned that Hashem lives in simultaneous time. In
>>>> which case I have come to contemplate on the concept after death and
>>>> simultaneous time. At this stage, which in the big picture is at best
>>>> immature, I picture death as entering a journey in which everything
>>>> that went before is captured. I wonder some times if we will actually
>>>> be able to reenter any time of our life at will.
>>>>
>>>> It's like, people who lose children and are worried that their children
>>>> will miss them. I wonder, I imagine, that the parent will be there
>>>> encapsulated in time, Hashem's simultaneous time, and that this world
>>>> is the recording studio so to speak. These are immature, perhaps
>>>> hopes.
>>>>
>>>> So to me the future look amazingly different to me than it does to you.
>>>> Next Shabbat will be an opportunity to correct the mistakes I made this
>>>> past shabbat. Opportunity to refine my potential into the "future."
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe you'd care to explain how it is. Perhaps you'd care to define
>>>>>>> time between past and present then between present and future
>>>>>>> without reverting to mysticism.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Try simultaneous. Boy you have really disappointed me, Roy.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If simultaneous there is no need for time.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There is a intense need for time. The clues are all around us. You
>>>> take a test, there is a proctor, there is a time limit. Everything has
>>>> time limits, its a moshol, an analogy. The whole thing is, if you can
>>>> picture this, when we make it to the mass judgement, beis din shammal,
>>>> we will be judged by the "procrastination time" and the "diligent
>>>> time." I forgot the term in Hebrew.
>>>>
>>>> You see, you view this as the "big" show. I constantly weigh each
>>>> decision to best of my ability, according to what perhaps will be
>>>> considered "well done." as opposed to "shoddy."
>>>
>>>
>>> For humans there is only that which you call the "big" show. You seem
>>> to forget that it is commanded that we return to the dust from whence we
>>> came. If you think return to dust is somehow an afterlife, you are
>>> intentionally clouding your own mind by ignoring the words of Moses'
>>> God. Is that what your studies in rabbinical Judaism are teaching you?
>>> If so... sad.
>>
>>
>> You even see dust with a clouded mind. How did Avraham beat the kings.
>> There is a great story about Emunah and Rabbi Nachum. You probably know
>> it. He was assigned to take a treasure to a mighty king. He stayed at an
>> inn and thieves stole the treasure and filled the container with dirt.
>> When Nachum got to king and the king opened up the box and saw the dirt,
>> Nachum fretted not, he remembered Avraham and the kings. He said with
>> confidence, perhaps Hashem wants you to use this to defeat the enemy as
>> Avraham had. The king tried it, the enemy was defeated with dirt.
>>
>> This is a whole lot deeper than you realize.
>
> Must I inform you that I have been at this much longer, with far greater
> conviction than you. But none of this matters if you don't gain a
> comprehensive, critical understanding of what your studying. Have
> patience and read not only the pros but the cons as well if you truly wish
> to learn.
I'm sorry Roy. I would never emulate you. You may have been at this much
longer. You are a Jew. You are a Kohen. But like anything else, if you
take the least resistent road, you don't achieve the finest end.
Believe me, the only proof on this earth of comprehensive, critical
understanding of Torah is looking at the candidate and determining which one
absolutely loves Ha Kodesh Baruch Hu. You, Roy, are too in love with
yourself. This is not a Hellenistic competition.
You are dead wrong in this comment, and that is why I pity you for wasting
your neshamah's time.
>
>>
>> Also, the witch of Endor called up whom? Shemuel haNovi. This tells you
>> what? Your dust philosophy doesn't hold water. Don't get me started on
>> wather.
>
> Strange allusion coming from a seeker of Jewish wisdom.
In this situation, Shemuel HaNovi was called by the witch of Endor which
proves to me, that your dust theory has more to do with Apikorsis, than
tzaddik. It is Hashem's way of telling us that there is a life after, like
Aharon's blessing after his death.
You see, this shows me that your baser instincts got trapped by world. My
analogy was about the ability to call the tzaddik from the grave. But
necromance is forbidden, because a person can actually destroy the person
they are calling.
>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You call it mysticism because you cannot wrap your mind around it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It is mysticism if the mind can't wrap itself around it. What else
>>>>> could it possibly be?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Here is your biggest problem Roy. You entrap yourself trying to prove
>>>> your mind is all that, right now, unchangeable. The more I study, the
>>>> more I realize just how little I am. So you ask, if it isn't mysticism
>>>> what else could it be, I say ego. It is like a child watching his
>>>> father, the master violinist, becoming arrogant. When the violin is
>>>> placed in his hand the sound is horrendous, until he takes the time.
>>>
>>>
>>> You keep downgrading ego. I wonder where that ego centered activity
>>> comes from. We may not like it, we may be embarrassed by it but without
>>> ego we wouldn't be human. Is that what you strive for, being something
>>> other than human?
>>
>>
>> It is not ego. It is the baser nature that wants. Kind of like the
>> weights in a gymnasium where only those with mettle can make something of
>> a struggle.
>
> Read Written Torah to appreciate its take on our baser nature.
I spend hours in Torah/Tanakh every day. I don't know why you cannot
understand this, except that it convicts you in some way.
>
>>
>> I strive to make Ha Kodesh Baruch Hu pleased with me. I see this life as
>> an expense account. I was given a neshamah to either damage or
>> embellish. I want to return the piece of Hashem I have been given, with
>> polish and refinement.
>
> Hubris will not impress Moses' God.
Here is the word that betrays your allegiance..."impress."
>
