> I've been reading some Jewish views of Jesus/Christianity.
> Here is a view from a Reform Judaism magazine.
> I've just chosen a few paragraphs that interested me, but
> the link is at the end of the post, if anyone wants
> to read the rest....
>
> CHRISTIANITY'S FORGOTTEN JEWS
> The heroes of the New Testament were believing Jews--
> a historical truth that's been lost in time.
>
> The nature, causes, and timing of the so-called parting of the
> ways between Judaism and Christianity are hotly debated
> among scholars. A few things, however, are universally agreed
> upon: although Jesus' first followers were Jews, mostly from
> the Galilee, by 100 C.E. the majority of Jesus sect members
> were gentiles living outside of Israel, and by the fifth century "Christianity"
> had become a fully separate religion
> from "Judaism."
> ...

> On Feb 26, 1:46 pm, Emma newsguy.com> wrote:
>
>
>

>> I've been reading some Jewish views of Jesus/Christianity.
>> Here is a view from a Reform Judaism magazine.
>> I've just chosen a few paragraphs that interested me, but
>> the link is at the end of the post, if anyone wants
>> to read the rest....

>

>> CHRISTIANITY'S FORGOTTEN JEWS
>> The heroes of the New Testament were believing Jews--
>> a historical truth that's been lost in time.

>

>> The nature, causes, and timing of the so-called parting of the
>> ways between Judaism and Christianity are hotly debated
>> among scholars. A few things, however, are universally agreed
>> upon: although Jesus' first followers were Jews, mostly from
>> the Galilee, by 100 C.E. the majority of Jesus sect members ...

> On Feb 27, 3:42 am, saint7pe...@hotmail.com wrote:
>

>> The turning point of when Jewish followers of Jesus became non-Jews
>> and Christians is when Christianity proclaimed that Jesus came to die
>> on the cross.  If you think for one second, you will realize that the
>> only ones who had a vested interest in this proposition were the very
>> same Jews who killed Jesus.  If they could just claim that He came to
>> die on the cross according to a NEW religion, then they would be off
>> the hook for killing their own Messiah.  Conclusion:  Christians are
>> dupes of the same Pharisees who killed Jesus.  Real followers of Jesus
>> are still Jews, and if they were never Jews, they are now Jews by
>> conversion.  Real followers of Jesus contend for the faith that was
>> given to the Patriarchs, and before them to Adam, the image of HaShem.

>
> I don't follow your logic.
>
> First Jesus came to provide a means for all of mankind to be made
> right with God (pay the sin debt).  His death on the cross was only
> part of this process. ...

> On Feb 27, 10:36 am, Michae...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>

>> On Feb 27, 3:42 am, saint7pe...@hotmail.com wrote:

>

>>> The turning point of when Jewish followers of Jesus became non-Jews
>>> and Christians is when Christianity proclaimed that Jesus came to die
>>> on the cross. If you think for one second, you will realize that the
>>> only ones who had a vested interest in this proposition were the very
>>> same Jews who killed Jesus. If they could just claim that He came to
>>> die on the cross according to a NEW religion, then they would be off
>>> the hook for killing their own Messiah. Conclusion: Christians are
>>> dupes of the same Pharisees who killed Jesus. Real followers of Jesus
>>> are still Jews, and if they were never Jews, they are now Jews by
>>> conversion. Real followers of Jesus contend for the faith that was
>>> given to the Patriarchs, and before them to Adam, the image of HaShem.

>

>> I don't follow your logic. ...

>
>From what source do you have the understanding that the Messiah would
>not have to suffer and die to redeem his people. The old testament
>paints a clear picture that forgiveness could only come through the
>shedding of blood. Why do you think God had the priesthood do animal
>sacrifices? What do you think the elements of passover signified
>(blood on the lintel and door post)? From the time of Abraham
>(offering his son Issac up as a sacrifice) God shows how sin can only
>be paid for by sacrifice - an ultimate sacrifice.

>Certainly the Messiah will come back and eternally be with His people,
>but before that could happen those people would need to be redeemed.
>I think the story of Hagar is a beautiful picture of the redemption of
>Israel (and mankind).

> On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:01:06 -0800 (PST), Michae...@gmail.com wrote:
>

>>From what source do you have the understanding that the Messiah would
>>not have to suffer and die to redeem his people. The old testament
>>paints a clear picture that forgiveness could only come through the
>>shedding of blood. Why do you think God had the priesthood do animal
>>sacrifices? What do you think the elements of passover signified
>>(blood on the lintel and door post)? From the time of Abraham
>>(offering his son Issac up as a sacrifice) God shows how sin can only
>>be paid for by sacrifice - an ultimate sacrifice.

>
> Where did you demonstrate God in the real world outside your religion
> before rudely and stupidly begging the question?
>

>>Certainly the Messiah will come back and eternally be with His people,
>>but before that could happen those people would need to be redeemed.
>>I think the story of Hagar is a beautiful picture of the redemption of
>>Israel (and mankind).

> ...

>On Feb 27, 7:03 pm, Christopher A. Lee optonline.net> wrote:

>> On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:01:06 -0800 (PST), Michae...@gmail.com wrote:
>>

>>>From what source do you have the understanding that the...

> On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 09:19:07 -0800 (PST), Michae...@gmail.com wrote:

>>On Feb 27, 7:03 pm, Christopher A. Lee optonline.net> wrote:

>>> On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:01:06 -0800 (PST), Michae...@gmail.com wrote:

>

>>>>From what source do you have the understanding that the Messiah would
>>>>not have to suffer and die to redeem his people. The old testament
>>>>paints a clear picture that forgiveness could only come through the
>>>>shedding of blood. Why do you think God had the priesthood do animal
>>>>sacrifices? What do you think the elements of passover signified
>>>>(blood on the lintel and door post)? From the time of Abraham
>>>>(offering his son Issac up as a sacrifice) God shows how sin can only
>>>>be paid for by sacrifice - an ultimate sacrifice.

>

>>> Where did you demonstrate God in the real world outside your religion
>>> before rudely and stupidly begging the question?

>

>>>>Certainly the Messiah will come back and eternally be with His people,
>>>>but before that could happen those people would need to be redeemed.
>>>>I think the story of Hagar is a beautiful picture of the redemption of ...

>On Feb 28, 12:42 pm, Christopher A. Lee optonline.net> wrote:

>> On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 09:19:07 -0800 (PST), Michae...@gmail.com wrote:

>>>On Feb 27, 7:03 pm, Christopher A. Lee

> On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 10:42:55 -0800 (PST), Michae...@gmail.com wrote:

>>On Feb 28, 12:42 pm, Christopher A. Lee optonline.net> wrote:

>>> On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 09:19:07 -0800 (PST), Michae...@gmail.com wrote:

>>>>On Feb 27, 7:03 pm, Christopher A. Lee optonline.net> wrote:

>>>>> On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:01:06 -0800 (PST), Michae...@gmail.com wrote:

>

>>>>>>From what source do you have the understanding that the Messiah would
>>>>>>not have to suffer and die to redeem his people.  The old testament
>>>>>>paints a clear picture that forgiveness could only come through the
>>>>>>shedding of blood.  Why do you think God had the priesthood do animal
>>>>>>sacrifices?  What do you think the elements of passover signified
>>>>>>(blood on the lintel and door post)?  From the time of Abraham
>>>>>>(offering his son Issac up as a sacrifice) God shows how sin can only
>>>>>>be paid for by sacrifice - an ultimate sacrifice.

>

>>>>> Where did you demonstrate God in the real world outside your religion
>>>>> before rudely and stupidly begging the question?

>

>>>>>>Certainly the Messiah will come back and eternally be with His people, ...