>>> You don't understand what he saves man from I see.
>>> Man got into trouble in the Garden of Eden.
>>
>> Correction, according to the fairy story A MAN got into trouble- for
>> eating a fruit.
>> What does THAT have to do with the rest of mankind?
>>
> It means that the state into which you were born, which you
> cannot help being born into obviously, has problems that you
> need to realize.
Oh for goodness sake - what utter crap!
What problems?
Look - it's really simple.
You have fallen for the oldest trick in the book.
It goes like this
1. You are stained, defective or unworthy and need to be "cleansed" or "
corrected"
2,. "I" have direct commune with the the Almighty who can cure you of this
problem.
3. You can be cured, at a price and as long as you do as I tell you.
It's worked like that for the major religions, new and old, for years.
It's for mugs.
>It means that you are born with a nature that
> wants to rebel from God and do your own thing.
Your assumption here is that there is a God to rebel against.
I certainly didn't rebel against God as a newborn, so your claim is moot.
Come to that, I didn't rebel against God as an adult either, any more than I
"rebelled" against Santa when I was six.
>But when you do that, as you go through your life, you realize that
> you do need the Lord to be the payment for your sins, because
> no matter what you do, you can't be good enough to be sinless.
No, that is something that YOU do.
It simply does not apply to me.
I have no need whatsoever to beg forgiveness for anything I have done from
some imaginary construct.
> But you can be counted as sinless if you have the right covering,
> and that covering is that you take upon yourself the righteousness
> of Jesus who was himself sinless and who took the burden of all
> of your sinfulness including past, present and future sins, too.
> It's a free gift. You do not have to earn it.
Superstitious nonsense.
>>
> I can tell you all these things, but the Holy Spirit is who will show
> you the feeling of conviction that you need a Savior. I can only tell
> you about that, but he can show you and probably will do that at
> the right time.
>>
>>>That put the rest of us in jeapardy.
>>
>> Why?
>> Because someone 6,000 years ago did something wrong.
>>
> Yes, exactly. You are born from Adam. You were born
> mortal.
>>
>> Do you think it would be fair if I delved into YOUR ancestry, found a
>> wrongdoer and punished YOU for it?
>>
> God is not punishing you. It's the state that you are in that
> is away from God that he did not cause you to have. It is
> the state that the devil wants you in, so that he can
> sabotage your life. He's out for blood. He wants God's
> throne and thinks he can win it. God does not want you in
> harms way, and that's why he wants you to trust him. He
> wants to lead you in such a way that you can walk through
> this life the best possible and most fruitful way. The Lord
> knows that you and no one will ever be perfect unless you
> receive righteousness imputed unto you for trusting in his
> Son and what he did for you on the cross. He doesn't even
> expect you to be perfect after doing this, just faithful, the
> best you can be, and follow him in all things. You can
> slip, but you are not saved by earning your way into Heaven,
> you are saved by having accepted his Son's righteousness.
You are starting to froth at the mouth a little.
Look, Suzanne, what would it take to convince YOU that all of this stuff is
completely irrelevant?
Unlike yourself, I can't claim that there is some magical reason pixie who
is finally going to make you understand that you are completely in error,
all I can do is hope that you can finally come to your senses and join the
rest of us in reality.
>>
>>>God has promised to
>>> save those who have trusted in him.
>>
>> To save them from God, yes we know that.
>>
> No, you have an illusion. God is not trying to
> save you from himself. He's trying to save you
> to himself.
>>
>> So God needs to save us from his own wrath for creating us the way HE
>> made us.
>>
> No, God wants to rescue you from the wrath of the
> devil who wants to claim you as his own, so that he
> can get back at God for ruling against him and throwing
> him out of heaven. What you are saying, you have said
> backwards.
>>
>> Doesn't that sound in the least bit ridiculous to you, not to mention,
>> very unfair??
>>
> Sure, if it was like what you are saying, but it is not
> that way.
>>
>>>When Jesus died on the cross,
>>
>> Temporarily died, according to your legend.
>>
> Yes?
>>
>>>He paid the penalty for all of the
>>> sins of the whole world.
>>
> Yes.
>>
>> What penalty?
>>
> The penalty imposed upon Adam which was death, or
> putting it where you can understand it, being born mortal.
What is so bad about being born mortal?
> It's not that you caused yourself to be mortal, it's that you
> were born innocently into it. However, because you were
> born mortal, like the rest of us, you have a sin nature that
> makes you want to rebel against God whom you display
> that you do not understand.
>>
>> He was only dead for three days.
>> A long week-end?
>> That's a minor inconvenience at least.
>> How could that be a proper sacrifice?
>> A real sacrifice would have been to stay dead like everyone else.
>>
> You think I believe your last statement was funny.
No, I believe it was accurate, according to your myth.
> It wasn't, if you can grasp the true perspective of the
> things I'm talking about. God doesn't want to hurt you,
> he wants to accept you as you are and love you with all
> of his heart.
So, what' stopping him?
Don't you understand that true love is unconditional?
>>
>>> He overturned the curse of
>>> death that had fallen on the whole human race when
>>> Adam sinned.
>>
>> What does it matter if Adam sinned or not?
>> Why do you people have it in your head that the rest of us should pay for
>> some transgression committed by someone else?
>>
> I don't know about anyone else, I am speaking for what I
> am seeing in what you are asking me. God does not want
> to make you pay for some transgression committed by
> someone else. That's the whole point that you are missing.
> That's why he sent his son so that your estate can be dealt
> with through what he has already done for you, if you
> receive it. If you don't receive it, then you will stand trial
> for the offense of your ancestor for having gotten you be
> born the way that you are. But your ancestor will go free
> because he has received God's forgiveness and complied
> with all that he had to comply with, getting kicked out of
> paradise, having to toil by the sweat of his brow to make
> a living for his family. And then eventually having to die.
> Two things, though, reflect that even he was saved.
> 1. He evidently taught his sons Cain and Abel that the
> acceptable sacrifice is a blood sacrifice, which pointe
> to the eventual Messiah, the Seed/Redeemer promised
> in Gen. 3:15.
> 2. Adam and Eve tried to make fig leaf clothes to cover
> their nakedness (which represents the exposure of their
> sin), but they were not adequate, but they accepted the
> clothing that the Lord made, which means they allowed
> him to clothe them in his righteousness based on the
> one that was promised which they evidently received by
> faith.
> --
> Here are two scriptures about this:
> 1 John 2:2:
> "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours
> only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
> --
> Because he died on the cross to pay the penalty himself
> (of death) for what Adam's sin plunged the whole human
> race into (mortality), Jesus paid for everyone's death
> sentence by withstanding it himself for us. That means
> that even people that never will receive him will now
> wake up again later from death, to be alive forever. Here is
> a scripture about that...
> 1 Corinthians 15:22:
> "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."
> --
> 1 Corinthians 15:22:
> "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul;
> the last Adam was made a quickening spirit."
> --
> (Also it is further explained in Romans 5:6-21.)
And your point is.......?
>>
>>>People talk about the doctrine of
>>> original sin, but few get it said simply.
>>
>> Perhaps that's because the whole concept of original sin is utter
>> garbage.
>>
> It's the truth.
To you, maybe.
>>
>>> It means that
>>> all are mortal. All will wake up from death and some
>>> will go to heaven, not by their own works, but by
>>> Jesus' righteousness alone which those that have
>>> received him are covered by.
>>
>> I have seen many, many dead people.
>> None of them ever woke up, I can assure you.
>> If you think otherwise, you are not only wrong, you are completely crazy.
>>
> There is one that came back to life, not just in a
> resuscitated body, but in a glorious and perfected
> resurrection body, and that's why people tell you
> about Christ. It happened.
>>
> Suzanne
Thank you for demonstrating the true state of your mental health.
Everything you said above gives every indication that you are completely,
hopelessly, and utterly insane.
Dead people rising?
Original sin?
Please get a grip of yourself before your condition worsens.
This is your brain on Jesus.
--
Steve O
a.a. #2240 (Apatheist Chapter)
B.A.A.W.A.
Convicted by Earthquack
"I have a miraculous picture of Jesus - if you look really closely at the
face, you can see a burnt tortilla"
