> On Apr 8, 6:34 pm, Frank Mayhar exit.com> wrote:

>> On Tue, 08 Apr 2008 11:58:09 -0700, Linda Lee wrote:

>>> On Apr 8, 12:28 pm, Frank Mayhar exit.com> wrote:

>>>> On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 22:56:44 -0700, Linda Lee wrote:

>>>>> On Apr 8, 12:20 am, Frank Mayhar exit.com> wrote:

>>>>>> On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 19:47:26 -0700, Linda Lee wrote:

>>>>>>> On Apr 7, 9:40 pm, Frank Mayhar exit.com> wrote:

>>>>>>>> On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 14:14:26 -0700, Linda Lee wrote:

>>>>>>>>> And believe me, I didn't take the occurrence during my son's
>>>>>>>>> birth lightly. I was stunned and amazed and stayed amazed
>>>>>>>>> and incredibly happy for three weeks, and it wasn't just a
>>>>>>>>> response to 'the miracle of birth', or that my beautiful
>>>>>>>>> baby had been safely born and was healthy;

>>

>>>>>>>> Of _course_ not.  And it _certainly_ couldn't have been
>>>>>>>> because of those wonderful postpartum hormones that were
>>>>>>>> flooding through your body the whole time!  You know, the ones
>>>>>>>> that cause women to forget, a little, just how bad the
>>>>>>>> experience was and to instantly and deeply bond with their
>>>>>>>> child?  The ones that can cause massive and sudden mood
>>>>>>>> swings?

>>

>>>>>>>>> the amazement came from the response I got that I would not
>>>>>>>>> have really expected without an iota of doubt because I
>>>>>>>>> didn't feel deserving of it, deep-down I believed it was
>>>>>>>>> possible for others, but not for me.

>>

>>>>>>>> What you don't understand is that the "didn't feel deserving"
>>>>>>>> thing is what set you up for the "religious experience."  Good
>>>>>>>> feelings are incredibly powerful, especially when one is
>>>>>>>> unaccustomed to them.  The rush of hormones you felt was
>>>>>>>> nothing special.  Your _reaction_ to that rush was, however,
>>>>>>>> to cast it in the shape of your religious beliefs. And,
>>>>>>>> /voila/, there was your "proof" of your belief.

>>

>>>>>>>> (Come to think of it, _I_ was unaccustomed to good feelings,
>>>>>>>> myself, a state that was unaffected by my religious conversion
>>>>>>>> and has only subsided since I've been taking antidepressant
>>>>>>>> medication and attending therapy.  I guess God is just not
>>>>>>>> very powerful when it comes to bad feelings, eh?)

>>>>>>> I did not have postpartum depression nor mood swings. I was
>>>>>>> extremely healthy throughout the whole pregnancy and following.
>>>>>>> I forgot nothing and remember what pains I had extremely well.

>>

>>>>>> You're still having trouble with your reading comprehension,
>>>>>> Loonie Linda.  I didn't say that _you_ had postpartum depression,
>>>>>> nor did I say that _you_ had mood swings.  (Further, I'll bet
>>>>>> that you don't remember the pain you had as clearly as you think
>>>>>> you do.)  It's also irrelevant that you were healthy.  The
>>>>>> effects of the postpartum hormones are powerful and inescapable,
>>>>>> for all that they affect different people in different ways. --

>>

>>>>> I had no hormonal imbalances the entire pregnancy. I had no
>>>>> morning sickness and no mood swings the entire pregnancy and
>>>>> following it -- no mood swings. I felt 'as healthy than a horse'
>>>>> during and after.

>>

>>>> Of course, I said nothing about "hormonal imbalances," "morning
>>>> sickness" or your health.  I explicitly said most recently that I
>>>> wasn't referring to you having "mood swings," as well.  Learn to
>>>> read, Loonie Linda.

>>

>>>>> Are you speaking from experience? I don't think so, Frank. I am. I
>>>>> am aware many women have mood swings during and after their
>>>>> pregnancies. Not everyone does, and I did not.

>>

>>>>> How silly of a man to try to argue with a woman over what
>>>>> pregnancy and giving birth is actually like for her individually.

>>

>>>> This is called a "straw man" argument, Linda, and it, too, is a
>>>> fallacy. You erect an easily-demolished argument that has nothing to
>>>> do with the issue at hand, demolish it and declare victory.  Of
>>>> course, you just "defeated" an argument that I wasn't making.

>>

>>>> None of what you claim contradicts the fact that your experience is
>>>> trivially attributable to hormone levels and endorphin release
>>>> during childbirth.  It had nothing whatsoever to do with "God" or
>>>> your religious beliefs except insofar as you misattributed your
>>>> experience to that cause.

>>> How silly of a man to try to argue with a woman over what pregnancy
>>> and giving birth is actually like for her individually.

>>
>> Nice straw man you're kicking there.  Did you stuff it yourself or did
>> you steal it from some other loonie?
>>
>> Again:  None of what you claim contradicts the fact that your
>> experience is trivially attributable to hormone levels and endorphin
>> release during childbirth.  It had nothing whatsoever to do with "God"
>> or your religious beliefs except insofar as you misattributed your
>> experience to that cause.
>>
>> And this also has nothing whatsoever to do with "what your pregnancy
>> was like."

> You're an ass.