On Apr 8, 3:02Â am, "Suzanne"
flash.net> wrote:> "LindaLee"
juno.com> wrote in message
>
> news:577b8259-b704-45c8-8437-21e07bbf275b@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 6, 11:27 pm, "Suzanne" flash.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>> "Liz"
donotspam.com> wrote in message>
>>news:28ihv3pfbgd524lqmjhho945j2uq4phgij@
4ax.com...
>
>>> On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 16:59:41 -0400, Gage
summertime.net> wrote:>
>>>>Liz wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 14:44:01 -0400, Gage
summertime.net> wrote:>
>>>>>> Liz wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 14:12:07 -0400, Gage
summertime.net>
>>>>>>> wrote:>
>>>>>>>> mizlee wrote:
>
>>>>>>>>> Hey, Suzanne, numbnuts, you do realize that your precious bIble is
>>>>>>>>> nothing more than a book of fairy tales, don't you? Â And that we
>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>> give a rat's ass about your loony interpretations?
>>>>>>>> I don't know why you would think that we are not fully aware of
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> fact already. What you are having difficulty comprehending is that
>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>> know the reason *why* you think and feel as you do.
>
>>>>>>>> You have been blinded by your spiritual father, Satan. God allowed
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> to happen because you are not one of His elect, that is, those that
>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>> chosen before the world was ever created to receive salvation.
>
>>>>>>>> You were also chosen, not for salvation, but for eternal damnation.
>
>>>>>>>> I know you are not going to believe any of this. You will claim
>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>> part of the "fairy story". I'm not trying to change your mind about
>>>>>>>> anything. I know that's an impossibility. I'm merely showing you
>>>>>>>> *why*
>>>>>>>> you believe what you believe.
>
>>>>>>>> Even you yourself are not able to change your own mind. You are
>>>>>>>> predestined
>>>>>>>> to believe what you now believe.
>
>>>>>>>> Remember, I'm not expecting you to believe any of this now. But
>>>>>>>> there's
>>>>>>>> not a doubt in my mind that you will believe it sometime in the
>>>>>>>> future.
>
>>>>>>> That dog don't hunt.
>
>>>>>> I know you don't understand any of this now, but I also know
>>>>>> that you will later.
>
>>>>> I understand everything you wrote. Â You believe that there is an evil
>>>>> supernatural being who tricks people from seeing that the
>>>>> supernatural, including himself and his supernatural nemesis, God©,
>>>>> who is supposed to be both in charge and all good, but still allows
>>>>> the evil supernatural being to trick humans for some reason that is
>>>>> never quite stipulated. Â Because the allgood supernatural being allows
>>>>> the evil supernatural being to trick humans into wrong beliefs, the
>>>>> allgood supernatural being must condemn those people who are tricked
>>>>> by the evil being to ETERNAL DAMNATION!!!!!!, which is a really,
>>>>> really bad thing.
>
>>>>> However, you and others like you, know the Truth© and according to
>>>>> you, I will find out the Truth© after I am dead at which time you will
>>>>> laugh your sanctimonious ass off at the people, like me, who failed to
>>>>> win the predestined supernatural lottery of being one of the chosen
>>>>> ones. Â Since you say that there is nothing I can do to change this
>>>>> situation, you can start your gloating early by telling me that you
>>>>> have something I don't have even though you can't show me a single
>>>>> thing to support any of your belief in all this.
>
>>>>> Is that a fair synopsis of your testimony?
>
>>>>Not at all. Not even close.
>
>>> IOW, spot on. Â So spot on that you can't even explain where I'm even
>>> the teeniest bit wrong.
>
>>>>>> Be as patient as I am.
>
>>>>> There is no need to be patient. Â You can present objective, verifiable
>>>>> evidence that the supernatural exists right now -- including evidence
>>>>> for God©, Satan©, Hell©, and an afterlife.
>
>>>>No. Once more, you're wrong.
>>>>He only reveals Himself to His chosen elect.
>>>>I thought I had made that plain to you earlier.
>
>>> Oh yes, you explained that quite well. Â See my paragraph above where I
>>> recognized you are one of the chosen ones and I am not.
>
>>> Are you telling me that you accept that you are chosen without having
>>> any evidence at all that you are one of the elect? Â How do you know
>>> that you are one of the elect then? Â Do you just make that assumption?
>
>> A person knows when he is saved because he feels
>> the indwelling presence of the Lord. He talks to
>> the person in his thoughts and heart. Sort of hard to
>> explain. Like that expression...."you have to be there
>> to understand."
>
> How about: He brings lots of things 'to mind', or brings things to our
> attention through others we encounter, that are useful/helpful in our
> personal lives and/or teach about the Scriptures and God.
>
>
>
> From Suzanne:
> Yes, of course those things also. Those are good
> points.
>
> Although being saved and being one of 'the elect' are entirely
> different things. It is not only 'the elect' who are promised
> salvation.
>
> From Suzanne:
> To me the elect and those who are saved are the same thing.
Yes, you are right. I misspoke.
> What is your point of view? Are you thinking that all that
> are elected are not the chosen by any chance?
> Suzanne-
I do not believe in 'predetermination'. It is a doctrine of
hopelessness and causes people to just 'give up' and feel condemned.
That is where my beliefs differ from those of Gage who was telling
these people they are unbelievers because God wants them that way, and
they have no chance to repent, and no choice in the matter. IOW, Gage
alleges they are doomed.
I believe the only ones God MAY have 'chosen' beforehand who aren't
operating under free will, but whom God has 'sent', are the 144,000
Jews (Israelites) of the book of Revelation because they do accept the
Messiah, and that these were sent to assist in ministering to the
Gentiles. (These likely include the prophets who prophesied of the
Messiah.) However, that does not mean other Israelites don't have a
chance at eternal life, as they are God's "peculiar treasure" (Ps.
135:4). But there is something special about these particular
Israelites.
The elect is another word for a believer, and they are 'chosen' by
God, but I don't believe they were chosen before they were born, but
are 'chosen' because they repented and worship God during their
lifetime in the flesh as the 'parable of the prodigal son' in Luke 16
indicates.
Mark 13:20 "And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no
flesh should be saved: but for the ***elect's sake, whom he hath
chosen,*** he hath shortened the days."
Elect - Gk. 1588 - simply means "select; by implication favorite". It
is "From Gk. 1586" (see following).
The word here translated "chosen" - Gk. 1586 - means also "to select".
Mat 24:31 "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a
trumpet, and they shall *** gather together his elect from the four
winds, from one end of heaven to the other." ** This includes all
living believers/"elect" ("from the four winds") and all deceased
believers ("from one end of heaven to the other").
We have been given free will to choose to accept or reject God and
eternal life.
As I've seen you explain today or yesterday, the following verse is
**not referring to God's predetermination of who is the elect;** but
God does have foreknowledge of all things.
I Pet. 1:2 ** Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the
Father,** through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and
sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be
multiplied."
This explains it is by the Spirit of God, and through obedience to
God, and because of the death and resurrection of the Saviour, some
are forgiven and selected to obtain eternal life.
