Michael Gray wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 05:56:11 -0400, Darrell Stec
>
webpagesorcery.com> wrote:
> >>Michael Gray wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 03:12:46 -0400, Darrell Stec
>>>
webpagesorcery.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> :
>>> >>>>Yes, the virtue of larceny made an appearance in my mind too. In the
>>>>seminary I also had the opportunity to read some manuscripts from the
>>>>Middle Ages. The ones on levitation and possession were particularly
>>>>interesting.
>>>
>>> Did J.K. Rowling read the same manuscripts, perchance? ;)
>>> But seriously, please elaborate on this topic.
>>> Possession stories were a groat-a-dozen, but "levitation" episodes?
>>> I am fascinated! :)
>>
>>I confess that I do not know the titles of these manuscripts but you have
>>to
>>understand there were other things on my mind at the time. After having
>>been in the seminary during the high school years in an all male
>>environment (all year-round school, 6 days a week) and thrust into a co-ed
>>college attached to the seminary, we once again rediscovered girls. They
>>were in our classes, at football and basketball games, at track meets, and
>>we worked closely with them on social projects (hospitals for the
>>retarded, and kids from fractured homes), so I didn't devote 100%% of my
>>attention to the books.
>
> I can not claim 100%% attention to academic pursuits at that age,
> either.
> Well, I *can* claim it, but I'd be lying!
>
>>I'm not sure whether these were hand copies of known manuscripts or if
>>they
>>were originals kept in the archive room of the monastery. I was one of
>>only two seminarians who were allowed in that locked room under the
>>auspices of a Father Edmund (or something close to that).
>
> Sounds like something from BlackAdder, series I.
>
>>The ornately decorated (beautiful illustrations) manuscripts were in
>>Latin.
>
> Do you get an impression of about how old they were?
> I love to look at original medieval documents, and as you will well
> know, the smell is unique and the most memorable aspect of the reading
> expeience, esp if they are on vellum parchment.
>
Several were handscribed on vellum. Others were printed on paper. During
this time I was introduced to the "smoker's glove" which normally is used
by smokers of meerschaum pipes to avoid putting oil and stains on surface
of the pipe. In this case the gloves served to avoid doing the same to the
leafs of the manuscripts. Father Edmund would take the manuscript from the
shelves, place it on the long wooden table (which dated back to the
beginning of the 20th Century and once upon a time belonged to Charles
Schwab, Andrew Carnegie's right-hand man, as did the mansion/monastery).
The priest also turned the pages and it was a good think accident prone as
I was.
>>St. Theresa of Avila (patron saint of television) was the topic of some
>>stories. I don't know if her drawings were based upon anything real, but
>>she was beautiful. Many stories of St. Joseph Cupertino, and some of St.
>
> A medieval 'pin-up' girl? ;)
>
But not to the extent of some medieval pornography I've seen.
>>Adolphus Liguori. And the only reference that I know of to levitation of
>>St. Clare (St. Francis of Assisi's lover) was in those manuscripts.
>
> This fascinates me!
>
And it bothers me. I wish I had access to those manuscripts once again to
confirm my memory of them. Also so that I can read them with more of a
skeptics eye.
Of course the Order to which I belonged was the Franciscan Third Order
Regular, so they would keep (and I suspect make up) stories about Francis
and Clare that might not be as interesting to other Orders or even Diocesan
priests. Secret knowledge and all that.
>>One of the books on possession and exorcism involved a young woman (I
>>don't remember if a name was given), apparently sexually provocative, who
>>levitated. What I can remember of her was that the Church at first
>>thought she was blessed because of the levitation but then determined
>>(solely on the fact that she was a real knock out type) she must be
>>possessed and the devil was doing it.
>
> Succubi & Incubi to tend to get the levitation thing going! :)
>
As yes. I'm familiar with the experience although I was probably not as
frequently visited as was Martin Luther.
>>Interestingly enough, just about the time I was reading them, one of the
>>secular dorms had an "incident." I don't know if Australia is different
>>but here in the States, most of the seminaries consist of a secular
>>college/university and a nearby monastery which is almost always some
>>grand
>>mansion (read that as huge) donated by some very wealthy Catholic.
>>Classes are co-joined but living quarters are separate.
>
> All of the seminaries that I have visited in Australia have been
> similar to convents, vis: self contained, almost isolated from the
> real world.
> Monastery & college in one, as it were.
> Much on the early English model, I expect.
>
The Franciscan Third Order Regular were oriented more toward missionary
work, teaching, hospital work and science, and therefore were more worldly
involved than some of the more monastic types.
As seminarians we would from time to time visit other monasteries and even
convents during which time we would play sports, games, conversation and
watch a movie. In one of the convents, there was a young novitiate nun who
I later found out was the sister of one of my room mates. She was
absolutely one of the most attractive girls I have ever seen. She later
took her final vows. What a waste.
>>Anyway, it seems that (remember this is the story we were told by those
>>priests and brothers who were in charge) four students were in a room
>>playing with a Ouija board asking dumb questions like sophomores and
>>freshmen are apt to ponder. At one point they decided to ask if there was
>>really a devil and the answer came back YES (so what would one expect from
>>a bunch of teenaged True Believers?). Next they asked if he could prove
>>his existence.
>
> Woo!
>
>>According to the story the lights went out in the dorm at this point, some
>>type of balled lightning seared the top of the wall and ceiling, and the
>>students heard a loud, deep, evil voice demonically laughing at them and a
>>strong smell of sulfur permeated the room. It seems that they could not
>>paint over the scorches (Rids-all might have been a smart choice) and they
>>could not get the power on it the room. So Father Edmund was called to
>>perform an exorcism, apparently he was the Order's exorcist, to no avail.
>>Rome sent some Bishop (apparently we are talking about a powerful or
>>important demon here). After he performed the exorcism rites the lights
>>magically started working (never mind the fact that the electricians were
>>working on the system during this whole time). We were told that one
>>student died of a heart attack, one left the college, one was driven
>>insane and one decided to become a priest (but not at our Order).
>
> You really should submit that tale to Ms. Rowling, honestly!
>
The college dorms were too modern. Now if that had happened in the
monastery, that would have been a perfect setting for Ms. Rowling. The
mansion/monastery was not unlike Hogwarts and neither was the Gladfelter
mansion during the high school years of my seminary life.
>>Naturally this became an example of what could happen if we played around
>>with such devil products. It thereafter was used as an example just as
>>the stories of people who masturbated would be driven so insane and
>>obsessive that they would masturbate in public at train stations and bus
>>stops. Nothing like a good anecdotal story to "prove the truth'.
>
> Redundant.
> 'duke' is the only object lesson in the mental dangers of masturbation
> that the world shall ever require.
>
>>Also in these manuscripts were treatises on stigmata and bi-location.
>
> Absolutely fascinating!
> As I have asked previously: I am interested in the antiquity of said
> documents.
> (If, say, they were written in 1927, then they are of less interest to
> me than should they have been penned in 1107AD, for example)
The manuscripts ranged from the 14th centuries CE through the 18th, although
the main library (not part of the archives) had books from the 19th and
early 20th centuries CE. Realize that I relied much on what I was told but
it was consistent with what I learned in later experiences with
manuscripts.
--
Later,
Darrell Stec darstec@
neo.rr.com
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