Re: Can A Quagmire Presidunce Invoke Special War Time Powers To Violate the Constitution?
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Re: Can A Quagmire Presidunce Invoke Special War Time Powers To Violate the Constitution?         

Group: alt.philosophy · Group Profile
Author: Robert Cohen
Date: Oct 1, 2006 15:41

page 2 of 3 of NYT review of Posner's book

BOOKS OF THE TIMES; Constitution Bending: A Jurist's Argument
Print Single-Page Save

By MICHIKO KAKUTANI
Published: September 19, 2006
In fact, Judge Posner appears to see the Constitution as a
fantastically elastic proposition that can be bent for convenience's
sake. ''The greater the potential value of the information sought to be
elicited by an interrogation,'' he writes, ''the greater should be the
amount of coercion deemed permitted by the Constitution. The
Constitution contains no explicit prohibition of coercive
interrogation, or even of torture, to block such an approach.''

Many of Judge Posner's arguments in this book are riddled with
self-serving contradictions. While he declares that ''the Bill of
Rights should not be interpreted so broadly that any measure that does
not strike the judiciary as a sound response to terrorism is deemed
unconstitutional,'' he also argues that ''a constitutional right should
be modified when changed circumstances indicate that the right no
longer strikes a sensible balance between competing constitutional
values, such as personal liberty and public safety.''

In another chapter, which discusses warrantless eavesdropping by the
N.S.A., Judge Posner shrugs off the concern that government scrutiny of
private communications could lead to embarrassment, intimidation or
blackmail of the administration's opponents. While he acknowledges that
''such things have happened in the past,'' he says that ''they are less
likely to happen today'' because factors like ''the growth of a culture
of leaking and whistle-blowing'' and ''more numerous and competitive
media'' have converged ''to make American government a fishbowl,'' and
''secrets concerning matters that interest the public cannot be kept
for long.''

Later in the book, however, he suggests that people's privacy
(regarding information collected by government data mining) would be
better protected if there were more restrictions placed on the news
media and ''the principle of the Pentagon Papers case'' were ''relaxed
to permit measures to prevent the media from publishing properly
classified information.''

Other arguments in this volume are no more than unsubstantiated --
indeed, highly dubious -- assertions. Judge Posner writes that ''it is
better that the president assume the full responsibility for national
security surveillance than that responsibility be diffused'' by
involving judges because ''when power is concentrated, so is
responsibility'': ''There would be fewer executions,'' he reasons, ''if
the sentencing judge had to administer the lethal injection.''

Judge Posner also insists that there is little reason for the judicial
branch of government to act as a check on presidential overreaching
when national security measures are agreed upon by Congress and the
White House, because the legislative and executive branches ''are
rivalrous even when nominally controlled by the same political party.''
The Republican Congress, he asserts in the face of overwhelming
evidence to the contrary, ''has not been a rubber stamp for the
national security initiatives of the Bush administration.''

By the end of this chilling book, the reader realizes that Judge Posner
is willing to use virtually any argument -- logical or not -- to
redefine constitutionally guaranteed rights like freedom of speech
during wartime. For instance, he expresses irritation with the Supreme
Court's 1969 Brandenburg ruling, which stipulated that speech
advocating violence or other criminal conduct cannot constitutionally
be suppressed unless it is ''directed to inciting or producing imminent
lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action.''

Although Judge Posner writes that ''in the present circumstances the
enactment of laws forbidding radical Islamist expression would be
needlessly provocative,'' he ominously adds that ''the situation may
change'' and that he believes ''the incitement/threat category could be
expanded'' to include ''generalized advocacy of violence against the
United States.''

In his opinion, he says, ''to tell Congress and the president that they
can do nothing to prevent forms of advocacy likely to multiply the
number of future terrorists makes no more sense than telling them that
they cannot prevent the publication of recipes for bioweapons because
it would probably take years to get from the recipe to the actual
manufacture, let alone use, of the weapons.''

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Robert Cohen wrote:
> page 1 of 3 of NYT book review
>
> BOOKS OF THE TIMES; Constitution Bending: A Jurist's Argument
> Print Single-Page Save
>
> By MICHIKO KAKUTANI
> Published: September 19, 2006
>
> Not a Suicide Pact
> The Constitution in a Time of National Emergency
> By Richard A. Posner
> 171 pages. Oxford University Press. $18.95.
>
>
> Citing national security concerns in the wake of the terrorist attacks
> of Sept. 11, the Bush administration has repeatedly sought to expand
> presidential power, often doing so in secret and sidelining both
> Congress and the judiciary.
>
> President Bush secretly authorized the National Security Agency, in
> search of evidence of terrorist activity, to eavesdrop on Americans
> without obtaining a court-approved warrant. The administration claimed
> that the president's war powers gave him the authority to detain people
> indefinitely and deny them access to lawyers and the courts -- a policy
> it would later have to modify in response to challenges in the courts.
> And it pursued a plan to put detainees held at Guantánamo Bay on trial
> before military commissions, a plan that the Supreme Court in June said
> violated United States law and the Geneva Conventions.
>
> The Bush administration's assertion that the war on terror is a new
> kind of war requiring new rules and a new equation between liberty and
> security is vehemently echoed by Richard A. Posner's alarming new book,
> ''Not a Suicide Pact: The Constitution in a Time of National
> Emergency.''
>
> In addition to being a judge on the United States Court of Appeals for
> the Seventh Circuit, Judge Posner is a prolific author, a lecturer at
> the University of Chicago Law School and an intellectual leader of a
> school of jurisprudence that has pioneered the use of economics to
> analyze legal issues. He is known for his willfully provocative
> opinions -- he once co-wrote an article recommending the private sales
> of babies -- and the positions he takes in this volume will not only
> fuel his own controversial reputation but also underscore just how
> negotiable constitutional rights have become in the eyes of
> administration proponents, who argue that the dangers of terrorism
> trump civil liberties.
>
> The very language Judge Posner uses in this shrilly titled volume
> conveys his impatience with constitutional rights, while signaling his
> determination to deliver a polemical battle cry, not a work of
> carefully reasoned scholarship. He writes about lawyers' ''rights
> fetishes,'' complains about judges' ''thralldom to precedent'' and
> declares that the absence of an Official Secrets Act -- which could be
> used to punish journalists for publishing leaked classified material --
> reflects ''a national culture of nosiness, and of distrust of
> government bordering on paranoia.''
>
> Near the beginning of ''Not a Suicide Pact'' Judge Posner writes that
> ''rooting out an invisible enemy in our midst might be fatally
> inhibited if we felt constrained to strict observance of civil
> liberties designed in and for eras in which the only serious internal
> threat (apart from spies) came from common criminals.''
>
> He argues that ''it would be odd if the framers of the Constitution had
> cared more about every provision of the Bill of Rights than about
> national and personal survival.'' And he concludes that ''the
> importance of demonstrating resolve at the outset of a grim struggle
> explains and to a degree justifies the excesses of repression that so
> often accompany our entry into war, including the war against Al
> Qaeda.''
>
> This willingness to bend the Constitution reflects Judge Posner's
> archly pragmatic approach to the law and his penchant for eschewing
> larger principles in favor of utilitarian, cost-benefit analysis.
> Efficiency, market dynamics and short-term consequences are what
> concern Judge Posner, not enduring values or legal precedents.
>
> One result is a depressing relativism in which there are no higher
> ideals and no absolute rights worth protecting. It is a distinctly
> cynical outlook that imputes the most mercenary of motives to everyone
> from journalists to judges: just as Judge Posner has asserted that the
> media merely pander to the demands of their audiences rather than
> striving to inform the public, so he suggests in these pages that
> justices simply ''make up constitutional law as they go along,''
> following subjective criteria instead of striving to uphold principle
> and precedent.
>
> 1 2 3 Next Page >
>
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>
>
> Robert Cohen wrote:
>> I did not write this book, nor have I been elected to public office,
>> thank the deit(y)ies.
>>
>> Because I am linking it does not necessarily mean that I whole hog
>> endorse it gung ho one hundred percent completely.
>>
>> However, I have previously conceded that I'm pragmatic, compromising,
>> hopefully adaptive and certainly NOT a Constitutional
>> literalist/fundamentalist of which I've previouswly explained to my
>> fool & full capacity.
>>
>> The true fact of the @#$%%^&*() troubling matter is I can't decide,
>> and thus merely wanted to herein play the provoking/advocating devil:
>>
>> I take it (I perceive) many others are in the same dilemmical gray area
>> ditto, though would not articulate it in the semi-articulate way I do
>> herein:
>>
>> From: Robert Cohen - view profile
>> Date: Sat, Sep 23 2006 7:02 pm
>> Email: "Robert Cohen" msn.com>
>> Groups: alt.philosophy.law
>> Not yet ratedRating:
>> show options
>> Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show
>> original | Remove | Report Abuse | Find messages by this author
>>
>>
>> Judge Richard Posner has such a book that tends to back GWB's position.
>>
>>
>> I am not sure enough to know what I'd do, so be glad you didn't vote
>> for me, because I'd likely candidly talk of malaise
>>
>>
>> Meanwhile, I saw today a review of Posner's book in the NEW YORK TIMES,
>>
>> and will try to link and ink it here some.
>>
>>
>> Your keen insight or ignorant rant is semi-welcome too of course.
>>
>>
>> And, hey, the USA is both a constitutional democracy AND a republic.
>>
>>
>> Well, imho, all
>> those State referenda sorta make it also a "democracy."
>>
>>
>> Reply »
>>
>> 2 From: Robert Cohen - view profile
>> Date: Sun, Sep 24 2006 11:15 am
>> Email: "Robert Cohen" msn.com>
>> Groups: alt.philosophy.law
>> Not yet ratedRating:
>> show options
>> Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show
>> original | Remove | Report Abuse | Find messages by this author
>>
>>
>> Here's some description, thesis, precis & critiques of Posner's pov:
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/Not-Suicide-Pact-Constitution-Inalienable/dp/01...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> - Hide quoted text -
>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> Robert Cohen wrote:
>>> Judge Richard Posner has such a book that tends to back GWB's position.
>>
>>> I am not sure enough to know what I'd do, so be glad you didn't vote
>>> for me, because I'd likely candidly talk of malaise
>>
>>
>>> Meanwhile, I saw today a review of Posner's book in the NEW YORK TIMES,
>>> and will try to link and ink it here some.
>>
>>
>>> Your keen insight or ignorant rant is semi-welcome too of course.
>>
>>
>>> And, hey, the USA is both a constitutional democracy AND a republic.
>>
>>
>>> Well, imho, all
>>> those State referenda sorta make it also a "democracy."
>>
>>
>>
>> Reply »
>>
>>
>> « Start of topic « Older Messages 1 - 2 of 2 Newer » End of
>> topic »
>> « Newer topic - Separation between church and state: Is that what
>> the founding fathers intended? Hello finishing wood 671 - Older
>> topic »
>>
>> ©2006 Google
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Bret Cahill wrote:
>>> I got this from Harry Hope on alt.politics . . .
>>>
>>>
>>> Bret Cahill
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>
>>>
>>>>From The Associated Press, 9/29/06:
>>> http://www.forbes.com/business/commerce/feeds/ap/2006/09/29/ap3055270...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Associated Press
>>>
>>>
>>> Gonzales Cautions Judges on Interfering
>>>
>>>
>>> By MICHAEL J. SNIFFEN
>>>
>>>
>>> Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, who is defending President Bush's
>>> anti-terrorism tactics in multiple court battles, said Friday that
>>> federal judges should not substitute their personal views for the
>>> president's judgments in wartime.
>>>
>>>
>>> He said the Constitution makes the president commander in chief and
>>> the Supreme Court has long recognized the president's pre-eminent role
>>> in foreign affairs.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> SIEG HEIL!!
>>>
>>>
>>> Harry
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