Brains cannot become minds without bodies
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Brains cannot become minds without bodies         


Author: Sir Frederick
Date: Apr 13, 2008 04:51

http://www.edge.org:80/q2006/q06_6.html

Brains cannot become minds without bodies
by ALUN ANDERSON

A common image for popular accounts of the "The Mind" is a brain in a bell jar. The message is that inside that disembodied lump of
neural tissue is everything that is you.

It's a scary image but misleading. A far more dangerous idea is that brains cannot become minds without bodies, that two-way
interactions between mind and body are crucial to thought and health, and the brain may partly think in terms of the motor actions
it encodes for the body's muscles to carry out.

We've probable fallen for disembodied brains because of the academic tendency to worship abstract thought. If we take a more
democratic view of the whole brain we'd find far more of it being used for planning and controlling movement than for cogitation.
Sports writers get it right when they describe stars of football or baseball as "geniuses"! Their genius requires massive brain
power and a superb body, which is perhaps one better than Einstein.

The "brain-body" view is dangerous because it requires many scientists to change the way they think: it allows back common sense
interactions between brain and body that medical science feels uncomfortable with, makes more sense of feelings like falling in love
and requires a different approach for people who are trying to create machines with human-like intelligence. And if this all sounds
like mere assertion, there's plenty of interesting research out there to back it up.
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13 Comments
Re: Brains cannot become minds without bodies         


Author: C3
Date: Apr 13, 2008 05:14

On Apr 13, 4:51 am, Sir Frederick fuzzysys.com> wrote:
> http://www.edge.org:80/q2006/q06_6.html
>
> Brains cannot become minds without bodies
> by ALUN ANDERSON
>
> A common image for popular accounts of the "The Mind" is a brain in a bell jar. The message is that inside that disembodied lump of
> neural tissue is everything that is you.
>
> It's a scary image but misleading. A far more dangerous idea is that brains cannot become minds without bodies, that two-way
> interactions between mind and body are crucial to thought and health, and the brain may partly think in terms of the motor actions
> it encodes for the body's muscles to carry out.
>
> We've probable fallen for disembodied brains because of the academic tendency to worship abstract thought. If we take a more
> democratic view of the whole brain we'd find far more of it being used for planning and controlling movement than for cogitation.
> Sports writers get it right when they describe stars of football or baseball as "geniuses"! Their genius requires massive brain
> power and a superb body, which is perhaps one better than Einstein.
>
> The "brain-body" view is dangerous because it requires many scientists to change the way they think: it allows back common sense
> interactions between brain and body that medical science feels uncomfortable with, makes more sense of feelings like falling in love ...
Show full article (5.54Kb)
no comments
Re: Brains cannot become minds without bodies         


Author: Sir Frederick
Date: Apr 13, 2008 05:46

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 05:14:20 -0700 (PDT), C3 aol.com> wrote:
>Does Frosty the Snowman have a brain?
>
>C3

Stick your head up its ass and find out.
no comments
Re: Brains cannot become minds without bodies         


Author: James Bath
Date: Apr 13, 2008 06:34

"Sir Frederick" fuzzysys.com> wrote in message
news:aos304107ctqae4nggdo8gafbq6l5nvkhf@4ax.com...
> http://www.edge.org:80/q2006/q06_6.html
>
> Brains cannot become minds without bodies
> by ALUN ANDERSON
>
> A common image for popular accounts of the "The Mind" is a brain in a bell
> jar. The message is that inside that disembodied lump of
> neural tissue is everything that is you.
>
> It's a scary image but misleading. A far more dangerous idea is that
> brains cannot become minds without bodies, that two-way
> interactions between mind and body are crucial to thought and health, and
> the brain may partly think in terms of the motor actions
> it encodes for the body's muscles to carry out.
>
> We've probable fallen for disembodied brains because of the academic
> tendency to worship abstract thought. If we take a more
> democratic view of the whole brain we'd find far more of it being used for ...
Show full article (5.82Kb)
no comments
Re: Brains cannot become minds without bodies         


Author: BretCahill
Date: Apr 13, 2008 11:09

Anyone with nerves pinched by a herniated a disk will tell you the
nervous system, which runs throughout the body, is just part of the
brain.

Bret Cahill
no comments
Re: Brains cannot become minds without bodies         


Author: BretCahill
Date: Apr 13, 2008 11:11

> But brain scans of people in love show heightened activity where there are lots of oxytocin and
> vasopressin receptors.

Lovers make better thinkers.

Bret Cahill
no comments
Re: Brains cannot become minds without bodies         


Author: BretCahill
Date: Apr 13, 2008 11:12

"There is more knowledge in what you think of as your body than your
brain."

-- Nietzsche
no comments
Re: Brains cannot become minds without bodies         


Author: ZerkonX
Date: Apr 14, 2008 07:18

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 04:51:18 -0700, Sir Frederick wrote:
> We've probable fallen for disembodied brains because of the academic
> tendency to worship abstract thought.

Throw in worship of the mechanics of technology.
> ... the lower you are in the pecking order, the worse your health is
> likely to be.

and the more children you are likely to have as compensation.
no comments
Re: Brains cannot become minds without bodies         


Author: Immortalist
Date: Apr 14, 2008 10:38

On Apr 13, 5:46 am, Sir Frederick fuzzysys.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 05:14:20 -0700 (PDT), C3 aol.com> wrote:
>>Does Frosty the Snowman have a brain?
>
>>C3
>
> Stick your head up its ass and find out.

If we imagine the possibility that at this very moment you are
actually a brain hooked up to a sophisticated computer program that
can perfectly simulate experiences of the outside world and ...if we
simply...
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Re: Brains cannot become minds without bodies         


Author: Immortalist
Date: Apr 14, 2008 11:01

On Apr 14, 10:38 am, Immortalist yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Apr 13, 5:46 am, Sir Frederick fuzzysys.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 05:14:20 -0700 (PDT), C3 aol.com> wrote:
>>>Does Frosty the Snowman have a brain?
>
>>>C3
>
>> Stick your head up its ass and find out.
>
> If we imagine the possibility that at this very moment you are
> actually a brain hooked up to a sophisticated computer program that
> can perfectly simulate experiences of the outside world and ...if we
> simply remove a person's brain from the body, suspend it in a vat of
> life-sustaining liquid, and connect its neurons by wires to a
> supercomputer which would provide it with
> [electrical_impulses_identical_to] those the brain_normally_receives
> while the computer would then be simulating a virtual reality
> (including appropriate responses to the brain's own output) and the
> person with the "disembodied" brain would continue to have perfectly ...
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