> On May 11, 8:34 pm, Robert Cohen msn.com> wrote:
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>> On May 11, 9:03 am, Robert Cohen msn.com> wrote:

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>>> On May 9, 9:13 pm, LMC Society hotmail.com> wrote:

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>>>> it's often been said that jews are a rootless people. the 'wandering
>>>> jew' has been feared and admired, vilified and romanticized, exiled
>>>> and emulated.
>>>> the historical image of the jew is that of a people going from one
>>>> place to another for whatever reason--curiosity, moneymaking, getting
>>>> the boot, search for a new promised land. and, so jews have been
>>>> accused of having no roots and no desire to settle down like everyone
>>>> else and make a living; this is a rather funny accusation coming from
>>>> portuguese, spaniards, french, and british who did much more to
>>>> conquer and wander about the world. but, i suppose one could say
>>>> spanish, british, french, and portuguese explored and conquered the
>>>> world for their mother country whereas jews always went for a ride on
>>>> the backs of other people.  before jews were freedom riders, they were
>>>> free riders.

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>>>> anyway, one could argue that the notion of jews-as-a-rootless-people
>>>> is fundamentally wrong.  homelessness is not the same as rootlessness.
>>>> it could be argued that jews didn't embrace wandering as an ideal but
>>>> an unfortunate necessity.  rather, they wandered about because they
>>>> lost their home--the promised land of israel.  in this sense, jews
>>>> always had home and roots in their heart.  they appeared to be
>>>> rootless in foreign lands because jews, remembering israel as their
>>>> true home, could never feel at home among goyim.
>>>> indeed, it could be argue that jews appeared to be rootless precisely
>>>> because they--and their religion--was rooted.  even though jews came
>>>> up with an abstract one-and-only-god in heaven, their holy book said
>>>> god gave a specific parcel of land to the jews--that land jews
>>>> conquered from canaanites and philistines.  because jews who'd been
>>>> scattered around the world thought of returing home to their holy
>>>> land, they naturally appeared and acted as rootless people in foreign
>>>> lands. it's kinda like odysseus in the famous story. he may have
>>>> appeared rootless as he went from one land to the next and bumped into
>>>> all sorts of nasty adventure and such. but, he wasn't wandering for
>>>> the rootless fun of it. he was actually trying to go home. even when
>>>> calypso tried to keep him on her island, all odysseus could think of
>>>> was going back to penelope and sonny boy.  to calypso, odyessus may
>>>> seemed rootless as he couldn't give invest his love in their
>>>> relationship. but, this was because odysseus was actually homesick and
>>>> had penelope on his mind.  so, odysseus seemed rootless precisely
>>>> because he was rooted. because he desired to go home, he felt and
>>>> seemed out of place in various parts of the world.

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>>>> if jews seemed rootless because their faith rooted them spiritually in
>>>> the holy land, christians may appear rooted precisely because their
>>>> religion is rootless.  jesus was a funny kind of jew. he saw himself
>>>> as the son of god--directly and literally. also, he had little use for
>>>> many jewish traditions and ideas.  he wanted to spread god to all men
>>>> all over the world--or, so the christians say. for jesus, there was no
>>>> single holy land for a single people.  all the people were god's
>>>> children and all the land was equally holy.  so, there is no specific
>>>> home or holy ground for christians. it's the Idea that is holy.  it's
>>>> an idea that can go anywhere, like dandelion seeds.  so, christianity
>>>> is rootless. but, its adherents can lead happily rooted lives because
>>>> they can be perfect christians exactly where they are.    a jew in
>>>> argentina may still think of the holy land of israel. secular or
>>>> religious, israel is historically important to the idea of jewishness.
>>>> but, the holy lands are not that important to christians.  of course,
>>>> christians want that part of the world to be under western control. of
>>>> course, many christians would like to travel to israel and do some
>>>> sightseeing. but, one can be an happy and totally fulfilled chrisitan
>>>> in spain, philippines, brazil, japan, china, or zimbabwe.  to be sure,
>>>> there is some stuff in the revelations about jesus coming back down to
>>>> the holy land and blah blah, but it's jews who are supposed to go back
>>>> to that territory, not christians.  a christian can feel happily holy
>>>> and totally rooted whereever he is.  today, a modern jew is happy in
>>>> the US and many parts of europe, but there is still a sense  of israel
>>>> as their true home. the holyland is spiritually and historically
>>>> jewish. it's the ONLY country in the world where jews make up the
>>>> majority.  it's the land that the bible talks about over and over.

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>>> The essay seems sympathetic and interesting, while I must argue with
>>> the thesis of the wandering Jews as unwilling to
>>> permanently settle anywhere during the past two thousand years.

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>>> That is a misrepresentation of reality.

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>>> The "Golden Age of Poland" seems to have lasted a long time perhaps
>>> until the twentieth century or the 19th or whatever century.

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>>> As regarding Jews non-conforming to mainstream normative.

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>>> The Dreyfuss tragedy is a notorious refutation of this.

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>>> The French officer apparently was falsely accused of disloyalty
>>> (spying for Germany):

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>>> The French military
>>> is afterall a reflection of French society:

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>>> Colonel Alfred Dreyfus' reputation  was subsequently rehabiltated by
>>> way of the eloquent attorney Emile Zola, though the ugly affair lasted
>>> for years including a  Devil's Island sentence.

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>>> D had apparently been railroaded by a  good ole boy military
>>> establishment in that most liberal, secular, Napoleonized society.

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>>> Theodore Herzl, the secularized Austrian, in the late 19th century
>>> perceives-- particularly verified from Dreyfuss-- that Europe is
>>> ultimately intolerant & hopeless.

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>>> Founder Herzl'  idealistic socialistic zionism is not based upon
>>> theology.

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>>> Some Orthodox Jews reject modern Israel as non-fulfilling of G-d's
>>> specific criteria.

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>>> I'm trying to refute the premise of Jews having a choice in where to
>>> settle.

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>>> The Spanish and Portugese explorers of the Americas were not
>>> exclusively Catholic (i.e. Columbus' translator).

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>>> The conform to Christianity or die Spanish Inquisition was circa 1492.- Hide quoted text -

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>>> - Show quoted text -

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>> Here is a less imprecise discussion of Herzl and L'affaire du Dreyfus.

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>>http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/922295.html-Hide quoted text -

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>> - Show quoted text -

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> A Golden Age for the Jews of Poland lasts approx 600 years, which
> ain't bad I suppose
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> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Poland_(966-1572)- Hide quoted text -
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> - Show quoted text -