> "tg" earthlink.net> wrote in message
>
> news:b16dd5f8-4275-4c50-8bba-bc878ec4068a@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 12, 6:08 pm, Immortalist yahoo.com> wrote:
>

>> On Sep 12, 1:49 pm, Nic hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

>

>>> the ice caps are melting the ozone is depleting and the
>>> long term forcast is overshadowed and outlook duller
>>> than Wednesday next March.... and then they tell us its
>>> all slowly going to freeze.

>

>> While waves continue to be characterized by crests (highs) and troughs
>> (lows), whatever the sea level, they are not a handy guide to the
>> general sea level, but merely to the disturbances on or near the
>> surface.

>
> Correct but not necessarily germane to the discussion. Waves do
> reflect wind, and wind is and indicator of temperature differences,
> and temperature differences are a reflection of energy levels.
>
> What many seem to miss in all this is that a system such as climate
> contains sub-systems, and that how those sub-systems behave is a
> function of a general energy increase. Consider a glass plate with
> some metal inserts---this is something that might be used in an
> electrical system to provide isolation of different circuits.
>
> If the plate is exposed to a heat lamp that goes on and off, and it is
> well designed, the difference in expansion and contraction between the
> metal parts and the glass part will not be a problem. But increase the
> heat input by 10%%, and the stresses on the glass may cause
> catastrophic failure.
>
> When discussing GCC, we have to remember that what affects humans is
> the sub-systems and how they interact. Australia used to export lots
> of grain, but a long-term rather than short-term (the usual) drought
> has contributed to a major drop in productions, which leads to sharp
> increases in grain prices, which for some populations means starvation
> and death.
>
> If GCC were taking place over geological time scales, which has been
> the norm, there would be no real problem because ecosystems (and human
> economies) could adapt. But that's not the case, and that's the
> problem.
>
> -tg
>
> ----------------------
>
> Exactly the problem, and the difficulty people have to grasping it. All
> people see is their micro/sub climate system, and then megabits of
> accumulated data of all forms ... what's missing is the individual's lack of
> "perspective" of the whole enterprise.
>
> The other thing worthy of note about sub-systems is their cummulative
> effects on the climate system.
>
> Only 10%% of Australia's forests are left. They were cut down in less than
> 100 years. After that was accomplised farmers and ranchers moved onto the
> *bush areas* of low level scrublands eg the acacias, wattles, and
> saltbushes. It all adds up eventually to change the local sub-climate
> system.
>
> Everyone knows evaporation from vegetation leads to local rainfall nearby,
> because it pushes the atmospheric humidity conditions to a tipping point
> that will cause rain. That tipping point is a set %% all things being equal,
> that has not changed since earth began, unless physics has all of a sudden
> switched tack. Well maybe everyone doesn't know that. :-)
>
>  Vegetation maintains soil moisture, and sustains ground water aquafers,
> which over time led to our Great Artesian Basin. More water than anyone
> could poke a stick at. After a century or more of pumping water out of this
> under ground basin for ranching/farming, whilst at the same time removing
> vegetation wholesale ...... she's as dry as a bone.  Natural water from the
> GAB that used to rise to the surface in various places and evaporate ...
> subsequently causing rain somewhere else no longer occurs.
>
> Maths is still maths and must follow mathematics rules. So it all adds up.
> First on the local sub-system ... and then all sub-systems add up to the
> global climate system.
>
> And everything about this issue, the primary reason for alarm or caution, is
> about *Tipping Points*, and not just that things have changed somewhat.
>
> If any don't understand what that means ... then look it up on google in
> connection with global warming, climate change, ocean ph levels, reefs, fish
> stocks, and so on ..... everything is connected in this global system.
>
> As they say, a kangaroo drinking some water in a billabong near Uluru may
> cause a drought in north east Greenland and kill off the raindeer forever.
> Or was that a butterfly? I can't recall.
>
> cheers