"tg" earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:b16dd5f8-4275-4c50-8bba-bc878ec4068a@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 12, 6:08 pm, Immortalist yahoo.com> wrote:

Correct but not necessarily germane to the discussion. Waves do
reflect wind, and wind is and indicator of temperature differences,
and temperature differences are a reflection of energy levels.

What many seem to miss in all this is that a system such as climate
contains sub-systems, and that how those sub-systems behave is a
function of a general energy increase. Consider a glass plate with
some metal inserts---this is something that might be used in an
electrical system to provide isolation of different circuits.

If the plate is exposed to a heat lamp that goes on and off, and it is
well designed, the difference in expansion and contraction between the
metal parts and the glass part will not be a problem. But increase the
heat input by 10%%, and the stresses on the glass may cause
catastrophic failure.

When discussing GCC, we have to remember that what affects humans is
the sub-systems and how they interact. Australia used to export lots
of grain, but a long-term rather than short-term (the usual) drought
has contributed to a major drop in productions, which leads to sharp
increases in grain prices, which for some populations means starvation
and death.

If GCC were taking place over geological time scales, which has been
the norm, there would be no real problem because ecosystems (and human
economies) could adapt. But that's not the case, and that's the
problem.

-tg

----------------------

Exactly the problem, and the difficulty people have to grasping it. All
people see is their micro/sub climate system, and then megabits of
accumulated data of all forms ... what's missing is the individual's lack of
"perspective" of the whole enterprise.

The other thing worthy of note about sub-systems is their cummulative
effects on the climate system.

Only 10%% of Australia's forests are left. They were cut down in less than
100 years. After that was accomplised farmers and ranchers moved onto the
*bush areas* of low level scrublands eg the acacias, wattles, and
saltbushes. It all adds up eventually to change the local sub-climate
system.

Everyone knows evaporation from vegetation leads to local rainfall nearby,
because it pushes the atmospheric humidity conditions to a tipping point
that will cause rain. That tipping point is a set %% all things being equal,
that has not changed since earth began, unless physics has all of a sudden
switched tack. Well maybe everyone doesn't know that. :-)

Vegetation maintains soil moisture, and sustains ground water aquafers,
which over time led to our Great Artesian Basin. More water than anyone
could poke a stick at. After a century or more of pumping water out of this
under ground basin for ranching/farming, whilst at the same time removing
vegetation wholesale ...... she's as dry as a bone. Natural water from the
GAB that used to rise to the surface in various places and evaporate ...
subsequently causing rain somewhere else no longer occurs.

Maths is still maths and must follow mathematics rules. So it all adds up.
First on the local sub-system ... and then all sub-systems add up to the
global climate system.

And everything about this issue, the primary reason for alarm or caution, is
about *Tipping Points*, and not just that things have changed somewhat.

If any don't understand what that means ... then look it up on google in
connection with global warming, climate change, ocean ph levels, reefs, fish
stocks, and so on ..... everything is connected in this global system.

As they say, a kangaroo drinking some water in a billabong near Uluru may
cause a drought in north east Greenland and kill off the raindeer forever.
Or was that a butterfly? I can't recall.

cheers