Re: Anthropological cover-ups & a possible genetic predisposition to warfare?
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Re: Anthropological cover-ups & a possible genetic predisposition to warfare?         

Group: alt.philosophy · Group Profile
Author: Immortalist
Date: Mar 3, 2007 00:05

Dig this permanent imprinting where at a particular age you develop a
discust at having sex with those around for the first six years of
life. Incest is an instinct but it is permanantly imprinted by the
environment. Some people can develop habits & thought processes that
ignore the digust and have sex with their siblings and parents, can
you?

Incest taboos are among the universals of human social behavior. The
avoidance of sexual intercourse between brothers and sisters and
between parents and their offspring is everywhere achieved by cultural
sanctions. But at least in the case of the brother-sister taboo, there
exists a far deeper, less rational form of enforcement: a sexual
aversion automatically develops between persons who have lived
together when one or all grew to the age of six. Studies in Israeli
kibbutzim, the most thorough of which was conducted by Joseph Shepher
of the University of Haifa, have shown that the aversion among people
of the same age is not dependent on an actual blood relationship.
Among 2,769 marriages recorded, none was between members of the same
kibbutz peer group who had been together since birth. There was not
even a single recorded instance of heterosexual activity, despite the
fact that the kibbutzim adults were not opposed to it. Where incest of
any form does occur at low frequencies in less closed societies, it is
ordinarily a source of shame and recrimination. In general, mother-son
intercourse is the most offensive, brother-sister intercourse somewhat
less and father-daughter intercourse the least offensive. But all
forms are usually proscribed. In the United States at the present
time, one of the forms of pornography considered most shocking is the
depiction of intercourse between fathers and their immature daughters.

What advantage do the incest taboos confer? A favored explanation
among anthropologists is that the taboos preserve the integrity of the
family by avoiding the confusion in roles that would result from
incestuous sex. Another, originated by Edward Tylor and built into a
whole anthropological theory by Claude Levi-Strauss in his seminal Les
Structures Elementaires de la Parente, is that it facilitates the
exchange of women during bargaining between social groups. Sisters and
daughters, in this view, are not used for mating but to gain power.

In contrast, the prevailing sociobiological explanation regards family
integration and bridal bargaining as by-products or at most as
secondary contributing factors. It identifies a deeper, more urgent
cause, the heavy physiological penalty imposed by inbreeding. Several
studies by human geneticists have demonstrated that even a moderate
amount of inbreeding results in children who are diminished in overall
body size, muscular coordination, and academic performance. More than
one hundred recessive genes have been discovered that cause hereditary
disease in the undiluted, homozygous state, a condition vastly
enhanced by inbreeding. One analysis of American and French
populations produced the estimate that each person carries an average
of four lethal gene equivalents: either four genes that cause death
outright when in the homozygous state, eight genes that cause death in
fifty percent of homozygotes, or other, arithmetically equivalent
combinations of lethal and debilitating effects. These high numbers,
which are typical of animal species, mean that inbreeding carries a
deadly risk. Among 161 children born to Czechoslovakian women who had
sexual relations with their fathers, brothers, or sons, fifteen were
stillborn or died within the first year of life, and more than 40
percent suffered from various physical and mental defects, including
severe mental retardation, dwarfism, heart and brain deformities, deaf-
mutism, enlargement of the colon, and urinary-tract abnormalities. In
contrast, a group of ninety-five children born to the same women
through nonincestuous relations were on the average as normal as the
population at large. Five died during the first year of life, none had
serious mental deficiencies, and only five others had apparent
physical abnormalities.

The manifestations of inbreeding pathology constitute natural
selection in an intense and unambiguous form. The elementary theory of
population genetics predicts that any behavioral tendency to avoid
incest, however slight or devious, would long ago have spread through
human populations. So powerful is the advantage of outbreeding that it
can be expected to have carried cultural evolution along with it.
Family integrity and leverage during political bargaining may indeed
be felicitous results of outbreeding, but they are more likely to be
devices of convenience, secondary cultural adaptations that made use
of the inevitability of outbreeding for direct biological reasons.

Of the thousands of societies that have existed through human history,
only several of the most recent have possessed any knowledge of
genetics. Very few opportunities presented themselves to make rational
calculations of the destructive effects of inbreeding. Tribal councils
do not compute gene frequencies and mutational loads. The automatic
exclusion of sexual bonding between individuals who have previously
formed certain other kinds of relationships - the "gut feeling" that
promotes the ritual sanctions against incest - is largely unconscious
and irrational. Bond exclusion of the kind displayed by the Israeli
children is an example of what biologists call a proximate (near)
cause; in this instance, the direct psychological exclusion is the
proximate cause of the incest taboo. The ultimate cause suggested by
the biological hypothesis is the loss of genetic fitness that results
from incest. It is a fact that incestuously produced children leave
fewer descendants. The biological hypothesis states that individuals
with a genetic predisposition for bond exclusion and incest avoidance
contribute more genes to the next generation. Natural selection has
probably ground away along these lines for thousands of generations,
and for that reason human beings intuitively avoid incest through the
simple, automatic rule of bond exclusion. To put the idea in its
starkest form, one that acknowledges but temporarily bypasses the
intervening developmental process, human beings are guided by an
instinct based on genes.

On Human Nature - Edward O. Wilson 1978
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/067463442X/

On Mar 2, 11:56 pm, "Immortalist" yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Mar 1, 2:54 pm, "tg" earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>> On Mar 1, 1:59 pm, "Immortalist" yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> On Mar 1, 4:15 am, "tg" earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>>> On Feb 28, 9:14 pm, "Immortalist" yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>>>> On Feb 28, 4:30 am, "tg" earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>>>>> On Feb 27, 11:57 pm, "Immortalist" yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>>> On Feb 27, 10:03 am, miasma...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>>>>>> I thought that it was political correctness that trended towards
>>>>>>> censoring the real stroy, for the sake of some other interest, a sort
>>>>>>> of "science by other means." Below I will present an argument, so as
>>>>>>> not to appear to be "shifting the burden of proof" fallaciously onto
>>>>>>> you, for that would be unfair. Please show contrary evidence to this
>>>>>>> expanded version of the thesis I am presenting;
>
>>>>>> Not necessary, since the evidence presented is actually evidence for
>>>>>> the claim that civilization (or the economic conditions associated
>>>>>> with or precedent to civilization) is strongly correlated with
>>>>>> warfare, as opposed to 'ritual warfare' as practiced by other groups.
>
>>>>> Please explain the distinction between "warfare" and "ritual warfare"
>>>>> more with examples. Your position is not clear enough to agree or
>>>>> contend with.
>
>>>>>> The examples given involve slaughters of people *in cities*. The
>>>>>> author is engaging in a false equation of pre-historic with
>>>>>> uncivilized, and it is clearly with propagandistic intent.
>
>>>>> Do you mean the stuff above your remark or below it. If above I
>>>>> probably agree since it was a reader reviewing some books, but if
>>>>> below are you saying that all paces where fortifications are found
>>>>> were cities and never ad hoc, move the stones in a few hours, which
>>>>> hunter gatherers could do?
>
>>>> Buiilding fortifications overnight (usually out of wood, not stone)
>>>> was something the Roman legions did. It is not even a remote
>>>> possibility for 'hunter-gatherers' with stone tools.
>
>>> The fortifications mentioned appear to be piles of stones made
>>> quickly. Are you saying humans are not related to hunter-gatherers?
>
>> I read through twice and I can't find what you are talking about.
>> Palisade/ditch is pretty standard and the palisade is made with wood.
>> But you don't build even that overnight unless, as I said, you are
>> organized and equipped like a Roman legion. What I read said that they
>> were re-building something that had been damaged, so it was obviously
>> a more permanent structure. Please re-quote the section you are
>> talking about.
>
> Thanx for pointing that out, I was probably confusing "fortification"
> in the first paragraph below with "large stones" in the second. I
> should pay more attention sometimes, but thats the plight of a
> generalist. I really enjoy learning how to debate these subjects.
>
> --------------------
>
> Keeley suggests that warfare and conquest fell out of favor as
> subjects of academic study after Europeans' experiences of the Nazis,
> who treated them, also in the name of might makes right, as badly as
> they were accustomed to treating their colonial subjects. Be that as
> it may, there does seem a certain reluctance among archaeologists to
> recognize the full extent of ancient warfare. Keeley reports that his
> grant application to study a nine-foot-deep Neolithic ditch and
> palisade was rejected until he changed his description of the
> structure from ("fortification") to "enclosure." Most archaeologists,
> says LeBlanc, ignored the fortifications around Mayan cities and
> viewed the Mayan elite as peaceful priests. But over the last 20 years
> Mayan records have been deciphered. Contrary to archaeologists'
> wishful thinking, they show the allegedly peaceful elite was heavily
> into war, conquest and the sanguinary sacrifice of beaten opponents.
>
> Archaeologists have described caches of (large round stones) as being
> designed for use in boiling water, ignoring the commonsense
> possibility that they were slingshots. When spears, swords, shields,
> parts of a chariot and a male corpse dressed in armor emerged from a
> burial, archaeologists asserted that these were status symbols and
> not, heaven forbid, weapons for actual military use. The large number
> of copper and bronze axes found in Late Neolithic and Bronze Age
> burials were held to be not battle axes but a form of money. The
> spectacularly intact 5,000-year-old man discovered in a melting
> glacier in 1991, named Otzi by researchers, carried just such a copper
> axe. He was found, Keeley writes dryly, "with one of these moneys
> mischievously hafted as an ax. He also had with him a dagger, a bow,
> and some arrows; presumably these were his small change."
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.philosophy/msg/0f2108056410176a?
>
>
>
>
>
>>>> As to the options below: There is a genetic benefit to ritualized
>>>> warfare, which is to expand the gene pool for relatively isolated
>>>> groups. But as with 'civilized warfare', to argue that there is a
>>>> heritable component beyond the presence of testosterone-fueled
>>>> individual aggressiveness is ludicrous. Complex social behaviors like
>>>> this are not genetically encoded.
>
>>> Are you saying that over hundreds of generations that there is
>>> absolutely no selction of particular individuals that were better at
>>> "testosterone-fueled individual agressiveness?" How would you defend
>>> that theory while allowing that capacities influenced by testosterone
>>> evolved?
>
>> This has nothing to do with different types of warfare---take a
>> teenage male any time in the last 200K years and you will surely have
>> enough hormones to turn him into a soldier. Warfare doesn't even
>> necessarily select for the most aggressive individual---remember, a
>> good soldier's job isn't to die for his country, it is to make the
>> other poor bastard die for *his* country.
>
> So your saying that the presence of warfare over many hundreds of
> generations lead to no selection of those better or worse at it. There
> is a place for neutral mutations, which evolve this way and that. So
> we could have very war like individuals popping into the gene pool
> occaisionally and then disappearing. Its possible that selection could
> not alter the gen frequencies of such individuals, but that theory is
> harder to believe in light of cultural selection, sexual selection and
> whatever selection based on the presence of some sustained pattern of
> activity over many millennium.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>>> Ritualized v civilized warfare: When resources are abundant, there is
>>>> no advantage to the group economically to engage in slaughtering
>>>> neighbors. it is sufficient to establish some territorial bounds in
>>>> the same way that individual hunting animals mark and defend their
>>>> territory. Death happens rarely and not by intent.
>
>>> Maybe thats why most of our instincts are "imprintable" for strength
>>> or weakness. Like learning a particular language accent that stays
>>> with you your entire life, maybe other drives are imprinted to the
>>> local environment so that a peacefull child raised in one environment
>>> could have tuned his instincts to be a violent warrior, depending upon
>>> the particular influences at particular ages?
>
>> Of course. And it isn't even a hard 'imprinted', since we can go from
>> peaceful to violent and back again over a short period of time. People
>> spend most of their time not fighting, so we have to have the range of
>> behavior available and controllable. Simply good systems design.
>
> We call them the formative years and it is pretty well established
> that many permanent changes take place in youth. This doesn't negate
> the possibility that we can learn other things to counteract these
> imprintings. But like with language accent, imprinted in particular
> places in the brain, and how later in life we can learn other
> languages and accents but if we don't practice them we revert back to
> our original imprinting.
>
> Imprinting (psychology)
>
> Imprinting is the term used in psychology and ethology to describe any
> kind of phase-sensitive learning (learning occurring at a particular
> age or a particular life stage) that is rapid and apparently
> independent of the consequences of behavior. It was first used to
> describe situations in which an animal or person learns the
> characteristics of some stimulus, which is therefore said to be
> "imprinted" onto the subject.
>
> Filial imprinting
>
> Konrad Z. Lorenz being followed by his imprinted geeseThe best known
> form of imprinting is filial imprinting, in which a young animal
> learns the characteristics of its parent. It is most obvious in
> nidifugous birds, who imprint on their parents and then follow them
> around. It was first reported in domestic chickens, by the 19th
> century amateur biologist Douglas Spalding. It was rediscovered by the
> early ethologist Oskar Heinroth, and studied extensively and
> popularised by his disciple Konrad Lorenz working with greylag geese.
> Lorenz demonstrated how incubator-hatched geese would imprint on the
> first suitable moving stimulus they saw within what he called a
> "critical period" of about 36 hours shortly after hatching. Most
> famously, the goslings would imprint on Lorenz himself (more
> specifically, on his wading boots), and he is often depicted being
> followed by a gaggle of geese who had imprinted on him. Filial
> imprinting is not restricted to animals that are able to follow their
> parents, however; in child development the term is used to refer to
> the process by which a baby learns who its mother and father are. The
> process is recognised as beginning in the womb, when the unborn baby
> starts to recognise its parents' voices (Kissilevsky et al, 2003).
>
> The filial imprinting of birds was a primary technique used to create
> the movie Le Peuple Migrateur, which contains a great deal of footage
> of migratory ...
>
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