Re: Another Puppy On sci.electronics.basics Gets House Trained
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Re: Another Puppy On sci.electronics.basics Gets House Trained         

Group: alt.philosophy · Group Profile
Author: Immortalist
Date: Aug 12, 2008 21:45

On Aug 12, 8:40 pm, "Rod Speed" gmail.com> wrote:
> Immortalist yahoo.com> wrote
>
>>>>> ...You didnt provide ....evidence [of] HOW NEW IDEAS SHOW UP.
>>>> The activities of the brain is how they show up,...
>>> Doesnt mean that there is any RANDOM process involved in new ideas,...
>> It doesn't mean that there necessarily is or isn't any random process involved in new ideas,
>
> HE made the claim that that process is random.
>
> HE gets to show what evidence there is to support that claim.
>
> THATS how it works.
>

I can be a witness for the defense.

Kevin said;
> I am stunned with this answer. Its trivially obvious that
> by most random variations (i.e. new ideas) are
> detrimental variations, noting the inherent
> Darwinian random variation, selection and
> replication algorithm that the
> brain actually uses.

RodSpeed said
> New ideas are nothing like random variations.

I agree that "some" new ideas are not based upon various errors in
pattern constancy functions. "Some" well thought out ideas are just
that.

I responded to your quantification of the likeness of random process
errors to new ideas as "nothing like" each other. By standard form
syllogistic translation "nothing" need to mean "all times are [not]
times when X", else it cannot be translated from regular language into
Predicate & Boolian Logic.

Translation Tips
http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/courses/log/transtip.htm
http://www.nku.edu/~garns/165/ppt6_1.html
http://www.philosophypages.com/lg/e09.htm
>> but if some ideas result from random events,
>
> There isnt a shred of evidence that any of them do.
>

There is plenty of evidence for the assertion that; "Reproduction
involves the copying of patterns, sometimes with small chance
variations. Creativity may not always be a matter of copying errors
and recombination..." Anything held in the focus of attention is a
reverberating circuit and some patterns that have been shown to travel
around to various parts of the brain need a spreading mechanism. But
your opening up a can of worms here, one of my favorite ones; are you
prepared to debate neurophysiology? [another little thingy I studied
for decades]

In reverberating circuits, the input signal travels through a system
of neurons and each of these neurons will make synapses with neurons
on a previously traveled portion of the pathway. The impulse
reverberates by being sent through the circuit continuously till a
neuron is inhibited. So, an input from neuron A goes to neuron B and
on to neuron C and then on to neuron D and then it goes back to neuron
A (or it could go to neuron B) and repeat the cycle again till one
neuron (whether it be neuron A, neuron B, neuron C, or neuron D)
becomes inhibited and cannot function. A reverberating circuit is
involved with sleep-wake cycles, breathing, motor activities, and
short-term memory. Ever walk with your arms swinging? That has a lot
to do with reverberating circuits.

http://www.physicspost.com/articles.php?articleId=143&page=2

REVERBERATING CIRCUITS link the cerebellum (the fissured organ at
right center of each picture) to the sensory nerves which connect
tactile, visual, proprioceptive and auditory sense organs to the
cerebrum. While part of the messages from these organs goes to the
cerebrum, part detours through the cerebellum, then "reverberates"
through the cerebrum to the cerebellum. It is thought that these
circuits server a feedback function. Proprioceptive impulses from
muscles may reach more than one cerebral center.

http://www.dyslexiaonline.com/information/brain/reverb_circuits.html

...All of this raises the possibility of self-reexciting loops, not
unlike the reverberating circuits postulated for the spinal cord by
Rafael Lorente de Nó in 1938, in the very first volume of the Journal
of Neurophysiology. If the synaptic strengths are high enough, and the
paths long enough to escape the refractory periods that would
otherwise limit re-excitation, closed loops of activity ought to be
possible, impulses chasing their tails. Moshe Abeles, whose Jerusalem
lab often observes more than a dozen cortical neurons at a time, has
seen some precise impulse timing of one neuron, relative to another,
in premotor and prefrontal cortex neuron ensembles. It is unknown
whether or not these firing patterns represent reverberation, in
Lorente's original sense of recirculating loops. These long, precisely-
timed firing patterns are important for the notion of spatiotemporal
patterns that I will later develop.

http://williamcalvin.com/bk9/bk9ch2.htm

If the pattern's the thing, how is it transmitted from the left side
of the brain to the right side? Or from front to back? We can't send
it like a mail parcel, so consider the problems of telecopying, of
making a distant copy of a local pattern. Is there a NeuroFax
Principle at work?...

...Copying for a faux fax is going to be needed for cerebral cortex,
even if simpler nervous systems, without a long-distance problem, can
operate without copying. Copying might also be handy for promoting
redundancy. But there is a third reason why copying might have proved
useful in a fancy brain: darwinism...

http://williamcalvin.com/bk9/bk9ch1.htm
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