> On Oct 2, 5:03?pm, "_ Prof. Jonez _" jonez.net> wrote:

>> CLEVELAND, Ohio (AP) -- A mother arrested after the apparent bathtub
>> drownings of her two young daughters was a domestic violence victim
>> who had no documented history of neglecting her children.
>>
>> A police officer leaves the family's home with a bag of evidence.
>>
>> The father of the two girls, ages 4 and 2, said the woman called him
>> at work Monday and said their children "are at peace," Cleveland
>> police Lt. Thomas Stacho said.
>>
>> He then went to the woman's apartment and pulled the girls from the
>> water in the bathtub.
>> Stacho said the girls were placed on life support by a medical
>> services crew and were pronounced dead at a hospital.
>>
>> The girls' mother, Amber Hill, 22, was arrested at her apartment for
>> questioning. No charges had been filed, and she remained jailed
>> Tuesday.
>>
>> Hill provided only her name, age and address, but would not answer
>> further questions at the apartment, Stacho said. She was calm and
>> showed no emotion when she was taken away by police, he said.
>>
>> "At this point she's our only suspect," he said.
>>
>> Hill, who neighbors said was studying to be a nursing assistant, had
>> no record of abusing her children, said Jim McCafferty, director of
>> the Cuyahoga County Department of Children and Family Services.
>>
>> "We never had a call of any maltreatment of the children,"
>> McCafferty said Tuesday. "The kids were clean and well cared for.
>> It's just a sad situation." In July 2006, the girls' father, Jamie
>> Cintron, pleaded no contest and was found guilty of domestic
>> violence against Hill in Cleveland Municipal Court.
>> During an argument with Hill "he started knocking things over, then
>> he said he was leaving with their children, he picked up a hammer
>> and broke the TV with it, then he grabbed her by the neck and shoved
>> her," a summons for his arrest said. Cintron served 26 days in jail
>> and the rest of his six-month sentence was suspended. He was placed
>> on probation for 18 months and ordered to have no contact with Hill.
>> He was permitted to see his children only if a third party was
>> present.
>> In 2004, Cintron, 23, pleaded no contest and was found guilty of
>> domestic violence against Hill. He was put on six months' probation

> Instead of killing the kids or yourself - there are other options.

> Read about some familles and single moms on the recovery lists being
> in turmoil from troubled kids. The feeling of hopelessness and despair
> is in many of these posts. Recently, I discussed the range of options
> of what to do with problem children with a professional in that field.
> She responded with many choices that are available for the parent that
> is ready to self-destruct. I've included these options below. A big
> problem can arise when the parent that is not a kid person has kids
> and learns too late that they are not cut out for that job. The danger
> point for the parent and the child is when the parents sinks to
> hopelessness and sees no escape other than death for themselves or the
> kid. Personally, I like kids, but I am low capacity in this area and
> have a very real limit when it comes to dealing with stress from kids.
> I have no patience to coddle and breast feed kids. I usually do better
> with older kids than screaming infants. Screaming infants give me the
> feeling that someone is sticking a knife in my brain. I accept this
> and work with it and not against it. This is the foundation of
> accepting and living within ones comfortable means which I will go
> into below.
>
> I've heard from a few moms that feel shy about discussing such
> troubles in public. They feel ashamed that they lack the capabilities
> to be "perfect moms." We can see a large range of comfortable
> abilities when it comes to moms. One mom can raise twelve kids without
> breathing hard, while another mom can't raise one kid and in the end
> even ends up killing off the one kid. Is the person that can raise 12
> kids a good person and the other person a bad person? No, they just
> have different comfortable abilities and capabilities. What separates
> the two moms? In a word - Naturalness. One mom works with her nature
> the other mom works against her nature and is living a "forced" life.
> (If you missed my earlier post "The Concept of Forcing Things" and
> want a copy write me.)
>
> If you are a stressed out single Mom or have a high maintenance
> family, be pointed in the direction of removing stress and problems in
> your life at every turn. Get the kids involved as well as the hubby
> with removing some of this stress. Make it clear to the entire family
> that life cannot go on the same way that it has been going. I marvel
> how people that are already sick from a complex and stressful life
> keep adding more complexities at every turn instead of taking the path
> of simplicity and less stress. If you make stress reduction your
> foremost purpose in life, you will be successful at reducing your
> stress load and thus increase your inner peace. You may not do this
> perfectly, but you can do it more perfectly than not if you did not
> make the effort at all.
>
> Food plays a big part in the lives of troubled kids. Many kids eat a
> diet of crap, highly salted crap at that. My own kid had high blood
> pressure at 14. I had it as well before we became clear on the sodium
> issue. Once we developed clarity, we found out that my son was eating
> 6000 to 7000 mg a day of sodium. Besides generating high blood
> pressure, sodium is a great corrosive that eats at our joints. Sodium
> in excess really agitates me, gives me headaches, restlessness and
> agitation. Corn syrup, sugar and artificial chemicals also work to
> keep kids agitated. Many of the parents themselves don't eat healthy,
> so how can they give away what they do not have themselves? Some of
> the parents I talk with say they do not have the time to cook healthy
> foods and eat right. No time to live right? They never heard of "first
> things first" I guess? Sounds like they need to apply a life of
> voluntary simplicity? What is the essence of voluntary simplicity? In
> a nutshell it brings your awareness to the fact that if you can't keep
> up - you scale back until you can. (If you missed my earlier post "How
> I apply a Life of Voluntary Simplicity to My 12 step Work" and want a
> copy write me.)
>
> Other times the parents say the kids wont eat healthy as they "Don't
> like it." What I did was to prepare healthy meals and tell the kid,
> "This is what's for dinner. If you want to eat diner then eat it. If
> you don't want it, then skip dinner and I'll save it for you and you
> can eat it for dinner tomorrow." I made it a point to stop buying a
> lot of junk foods and keeping it in the house. Sure kids can get junk
> to eat outside of the house, but I will not contribute to his eating
> it in excess at home. We had treats and junk now and again, but the
> majority of the food served was real, not fast foods or junk. Another
> area of neglect in many homes is that of exercise. Sedentary lifestyle
> is on the rise with a lot of kids. video games, computers keeping them
> sitting too long. (If you missed my earlier post "The King and Queen
> of Good Health" if goes into more detail about the balance of healthy
> food and exercise - if you want a copy write me.)
>
> A lot of kids seem to be starting young with addiction nowadays. When
> I dropped my kid off at college yesterday I noticed most of the
> freshman smoking cigs. Then there is all the stories of gambling,
> drunkenness and drugs. If your kid is a young addict, get them going
> in 12 step work. Better early than late. In the news was the latest
> rage with teens - asphyxia or choking to cause an altered state of
> consciousness. Kids find no shortage of ways to abuse the senses ...
> do they? When I was young I did most of the same. "The road of excess
> leads to the palace of wisdom" ~ William Blake.
>
>
> Here is part of the professional's response as to what to do with
> problem kids that are destroying a family.
>
> (...) writes:
>
> Counseling is available for all income levels through local mental
> health services. But, in extreme cases if a child is causing
> overwhelming problems parents can seek other options like:
>
> 1. Contact the children's services dept. of your local human services
> agency they can take emergency custody for up to 30 days and you can
> get the child back anytime you want during that period and help you
> develop appropriate resources and strategies for coping
>
> 2. Temporary custody is from 30 days to a max of up to 2 years
> depending on the state you live in, they make a case plan for
> reunification including wrap around services to help you with the
> reunification and they always look for family or friends of the family
> for the placement first - it is a priority
>
> 3. If there is no change of circumstances and the situation remains
> untenable, may be that the state takes permanent custody of the child.
> Again this is the most extreme cases, but if you are contemplating
> destroying yourself or the child, then that is a viable option
>
> There are many good books and videos on parenting from the library
> fro example:
>
> The video and book called "1,2,3 Magic" and the books on parenting
> from Foster Cline and Jim Faye there are several depending on the
> children's ages
> called "Parenting With Love and Logic "ie. 'parenting with love and
> logic for teens' 'parenting with love and logic for grandparents'
>
> (end of snip)
>
> V writes:
>
> Sometimes, just the threat of the kid going away for a "vacation" can
> get kids serious about change and help them to think in a different
> direction. Other times a vacation is needed for all concerned to get a
> fresh start. In any case, there is never a need for physical harm
> unless we choose the wrong path due to ignorance, hopelessness and
> rage. So exhaust all means at your disposal for change and then and
> only then work on acceptance. Here is an old post to shed more light
> on this subject.
>
> "Living Within Our Comfortable Capabilities"
>
> It seems life gives us enough hassles for free, so we don't have to
> help life by bulldozing more problems onto our own backs. It is a real
> death trap people make for themselves when they try to keep up with a
> hi-cap lifestyle with their low-cap capabilities. They are
> concentrated on keeping up with others and forget to concentrate on
> themselves and their own inner peace. The 12 and 12 writes about this
> on pages 122-125 when it mentions "staying right size." I feel there
> is nothing shameful about being a low-cap person, the only shame comes
> from trying to be something we are not comfortably able to be and
> killing yourself and your loved ones from an ego driven, out of
> balance life. Learning acceptance and being grateful for my
> comfortable capabilities was a major key to being at peace with my
> capabilities. My self worth comes from being the best I can be within
> MY comfortable capabilities and not from trying to be something I am
> not comfortably, solvently, abstinently, soberly and peacefully able
> to be.
>
> Clarity about or actions is very important for those that ask the
> question about living comfortably within ones means. I will say that
> no one ever accomplishes anything great without pushing the envelope
> of stress. If you want to climb Mount Everest you have to make
> yourself uncomfortable. But, on the other hand, no one can force you
> to climb Mount Everest and make yourself that uncomfortable if you
> don't want to be. That choice is ours alone. The only question for the
> addicts to ask themselves, if they choose to climb Mount Everest is
> this; are you going to end up as just another one of the dead cadavers
> littering the mountain or will you be successful with your summit.
>
> Being uncomfortable is one of the top reasons why addicts lose
> themselves in their addictions. It doesn't matter whether the point of
> uncomfortability comes from resentments, stress, abuse, greed or kids.
> It still boils down to wanting to escape life and pain though our
> addictions. The concept of working within my limits and comfort zone
> sprouted from my own clutter work. I found I could not keep a mantle
> dusted when I had 20 things on it but could keep it clean when it only
> had 3 things. Now, the 20 things were not cheap things by any means,
> they were carved ivories, carved jades, antique oriental porcelain, a
> 19th century musical tortoiseshell clock and an 11th century stone
> craving from India. Many, many thousands dollars on that mantle, yet
> it was all turned into dusty trash because it overwhelmed my
> comfortable capabilities to maintain. In fact, if there was a few
> square inches of mantle showing through I would think on buying
> something else a to fill that spot. Learning about the importance of
> numbers and how it related to my recovery clarity brought me the
> concept of "living my life by the numbers." (If you missed my earlier
> post "Living your Life By the Numbers" and wish a copy of it write
> me.)
>
> Once I learned this concept of "living my life by the numbers" I was
> able to apply this numerical clarity to many other addiction areas
> whether it be sex addiction, clutter, food, time management or kids. I
> now use number to take ME out of the picture and put recovery in the
> drivers seat and it all revolves around the question of "comfortable
> capabilities." We all heard of HALTS, yet of us make little use of it
> since we have no clarity of where our boundaries are. in a word we are
> VAGUE. I heard of HALTS in the mid 1970's yet until I became aware of
> the importance of my comfortable limits, measured within my program by
> numerical clarity I seldom applied it. I guess it is just too general
> of a term HALTS is. But with clarity and measurability HALTS came
> alive for me and suddenly became a useful recovery tool. My Debtors
> Anonymous program was my first exposure to using numerical clarity and
> thus one recovery program helped another.
>
> I first thought of the importance of living within my (stress) means
> when it came to paying bills one day. I was overwhelmed with some work
> and could not bring myself to pay the bills for a few days. My bill
> paying routine was to sit in front of the TV and write checks. Anyway
> you cut it, that is not much work to pay the bills in front of the TV.
> But, to me I didn't care. It had nothing to do with money, as I had a
> few thousand dollars in the bank more what I needed to pay the bills.
> I just wanted to sit in front of the TV and veg out and didn't want to
> be bothered with anything. Now when I feel that way or come home and
> don't have the mental energy to make a sandwich for lunch this is a
> signpost for me to take a look at my lifestyle. As I probably need to
> scale back with stress and I'm headed down the wrong road again. What
> is voluntary simplicity in a nutshell? If you can't keep up, you scale
> back until you can keep up.
>
> An overeater once told me that she became aware of a signpost that her
> program was heading downhill when "The first thing to go is the
> crudities" (referring to not eating her raw vegetables as a signpost
> that she was headed in the wrong direction with her food program.)
> There are many signposts that we can look for in our own lives to warn
> us that we are getting too busy for recovery. This helps avoid a binge
> if we can see it coming on and change directions. Working against our
> higher power and praying all the while does little good. We need to
> match footwork with mouthwork - we need to talk and walk in the same
> direction. We all have another binge within us - but maybe not another
> recovery? When I am too disgusted and tired to exercise, I'd better
> pay attention to how I am living. (If you missed my earlier post
> entitled "The Definition of a Miracle is the Suspension of Natural
> Law" it goes into more details about footwork matching mouthwork.)
>
> Each of us we all have different capabilities. Yours might be ten
> times more of what mine is, or it may be ten times less. In the end,
> it really doesn't matter whether it is higher or lower, all that
> matters is you accept your own abilities and work each day to live
> within these means. I do know that we all have boundaries or limits
> and once an addict is pushed too far outside of the limits they are
> headed for trouble. If they think they are immune to this just because
> they have a recovery program they are wrong. If they were immune to
> slips they wouldn't be an addict anymore would they? So, whether it be
> the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak or the flesh is weak but
> the spirit is willing, something has to give. So check out your
> comfort zone and make sure you know the signposts of when things are
> coming undone in your own life.
>
> Recently there have been a couple of mothers in the news for killing
> all their children. They were both home schooling mothers too. In my
> opinion, these are two extreme cases of not living within your
> comfortable means whether it is financial, energy, spiritual, mental
> or ability means. I think if they were more in tune with their
> comfortable limits and abilities their kids would still be around.
> These mothers saw no other way out. Their ego or their husbands ego
> ruled and forced them to such actions. When we work in unnatural
> directions, it is usually ego driven. For if we let peace guide us,
> our actions become natural, comfortable and sustainable.
>
> It is almost an impossibility to be perfectly comfortable in life or
> recovery no matter how hard we try. With families, work, sickness,
> money issues and life in general we will get many opportunities to be
> uncomfortable in life. Now, if we have no concern for our comfort and
> just keep making ourselves uncomfortable, plus we add all the free
> problems life gives us then we will be definitely overloaded. So, this
> is the importance of being aware of our comfort zone and boundaries in
> life - cut down on your problems and don't add to them.
>
> "Remember, peace is just another name for the integrity of being which
> enables man to respond to life without inner conflict. A mind which is
> in pieces cannot be a mind at peace." -- B. Phillips
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Take care,
>
>
> V (Male)
>
> Agnostic Freethinker
> Practical Philosopher
> AA#2