"zinnic" gate.net> wrote in message
news:faaaeee9-378a-48b7-8c7c-47b85bae7409@x35g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 4, 9:02 pm, "Sean" now.com.au> wrote:

As opposed to the chromatic scale?
Sean, I am out of my depth here,. My understanding is that the
apparent dissonance of Western and Eastern arises from a differencece
in the use of half notes in the musical scales .
Maybe you can explain? I am pedantic but not musical. I stand to be
corrected :-)
Zinnic

------------------------------------

You're being unfair here Zinn. I'm so far out of my depth when it comes to
music that I have already drowned ..... which is why I was asking you what
you meant, because I don;t have a clue about the details. I have tried, but
I have some major mental block when it comes to music. I know if I like it,
I can play guitar a little for fun and several other instruments I learnt at
school , but music theory and things like 4ths and 5ths and diminished etc
etc ----- no way .

Ok, I'll tell you what I do know.
Pythagorus was apparently the first to work out why music was musical and
harmonic, and not just noise. He uncovered the underlying system and
mathematics of it.

Not only that, he apparently recognised greater connections of musical
mathematics with physics and the ways of the world. I am not aware of
anything subsequently that has proven him seriously wrong or inaccurate,
given his time/cultural knowledge and todays.

He also was the inventor of the guitar. Because of such things I defer to
HIS genius even if I don;t fully get it in detail. Then there's him being
recognised as founding the first "University", the template for which is
still in use today from what it looks like to me. For him "music" and the
"music of the spheres" was not unimportant to life as a human being.

Much has been lost about him, and faded, yet upon his work and knowledge
came the likes of Socrates, Plato and Artistotle .......... and later Da
Vinci, Newton, Eienstien, Flemming, etc etc and Quantum Physics. I think
what he knew was pretty profound given it was 2500+ years ago.

So for me, I have no problem in defaulting to such ancient wisdom and trying
to comprehend what was going on or being said or done in a language and
culture quite different than the modern day.

Moving on, I can't remember who or when, but along the way the musical
scales were changed around the time that the modern piano was developed.
There was something wrong in the "maths" of it, being "irrational" so
something mechanical was done to adjust the scales/keys of a piano to make
up for this.

To me that sounds awefully like the irrationality of 22/7 .... it's close,
but not exact as a maths figure. I only ask is there a connection? The link
info provided by Brian seems to suggest so to me.

I'm not bothered that 22/7 is being put up given that we are speacking about
ancinet knowledge and how they were capable of presenting and recording it.
Ala the Pyramids maths.

Now, the maths in the pyramids are oddly enough duplicated in many other
places, times, and civilisations around the globe. Where there was
absolutely NO physical connection or sharing of knowledge between one
culture/time and another. That to me, is significiant, and again this chap
is presenting such info [ but from other things i have read and studied, he
barely touches on this. ]

OK, so what? Well, Pythagorus studied for many years in Egypt long before he
ended up at Crotona. He wasn't the only one fwiw. As a little aside there
was also a strong connection between the Greeks and Buddhists in Tibet and
India.

So what? Alright, another issue is the so called virgin birth of Jesus as
documented. Forget the religious aspects, but did you know that every major
religion/path from every continent on the earth recounts such "myths" as a
virgin birth, death and ressurrection into enlightment in some form or
other? Again, such cultures / groups are totally disconnected by time &
space.

I simply ask myself --- why is this so? How does this happen? What, if
anything is the connection?

How come the very same maths, designs and symbold tuen up in Mexico, Egypt,
Greece, Cambodia, and Tibet across eons of time? And still today, as science
and maths advances even more, the very same, or similar maths, symbology,
methodology, ratios, measurements and behaviours appears in physics,
biochemistry, astronomy, and biology?

What this chap Michael Hayes outlines I have read about before, in all
sorts of perspectives, but here he has grouped together a small portion of
that and again he finds *unbelieveable* synchronicities. My antenna prick up
when I see others discover such blatant co-incidences.

That does NOT mean that I think everything he says must be correct [ just
because it feels good to me], but I accept that no one gets everything
perfect, and can get a little muddled seeing things that aren;t really
there. But I think he raised and has compiled some very ointeresting things
on hios journey.

So back to Pythagorus, lets not throw out the maths and knowledge just
because some folks may like to focus on his "numerology" aspects. Pythagorus
is much greater than that, and I think deserves a rational look at. [ mists
of time accepted ]

Now, Pi is of course "irrational" and 22/7 is merely a representation in
whole numbers. BUT 22/7 is still totally accurate as a representation of
1.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ad nauseum, and I can prove it.

Get 22 and divide it by 7 on a calculator and you WILL get the irrational
answer to infinite decimal places.

So that excuse as not being right, is, imho not correct. 22/7 is EXACTLY Pi
...... iow, that IS what Pi is!. Follow?

Next, the issue of semi-tones was brought up by others .... OK, that true.
There are indeed 12 semi-tones in each Octave. This IS correct.

BUT ....... Michael Hayes representation of the three Octave's , the 7 major
notes, and his representation of 22/7 is still 100%% correct and accurate. He
is right here.

The semi-tones if anything, is merely additional information that is also
true ----- but I refer above to the piano keys of 52 notes NOT being 100%%
accurate to the mucial scale from a maths point of view. A slight adjustment
has been made, and yet Mozart still works on a modern piano.

Let's not get so irritated about slight variances in minute details and miss
the forest for the trees.

Think about what he is saying, first, and think about the incredible
connections he is alluding to that cover the most ancient of times right up
to day.

It is no accident that Pi and spirals and double helixs permeate the
physical universe, out there and inside of us. In minerals and in biology.
In music and in maths.

Maybe Mr Hayes is actually onto to something here because he is taking a
much broader point of view of science & maths than a scientific expert
usually has the opportunity to do in their particular detailed field.

The understanding, the language and semantics available today are much more
extensive than that available to the ancient cultures. That does not mean
that representations like the Pyramids do not show the true knowledge base
of the experts of thier time.

Maybe it is us who are unable to grasp the form of these things because it
isn't a detailed Mathematical Theory printed out in Word upon 999 pages with
references on your HP printer?

At least, that's how I viewed what the guy had to offer. I think he's onto
something quite fundamental in the universe in which we live.

His poiint about 3 primary forces is just one example of where I fully
understand him and accept as being true. Active, passive and neutral.

OK hope that helps, sorry for the waffle ...... I really was only asking you
what you meant. For all that, you got where I am coming from and what I
think about such things in my very humble and dte way of expressing myself.


and Cheers Zinn ... take care.