On Tue, 29 May 2007 19:03:17 -0700, Fred Weiss wrote:
> On May 29, 5:45 pm, The Trucker
verizon.net> wrote:>> On Tue, 29 May 2007 11:43:47 -0700, Fred Weiss wrote:
>
>>> ...In fact there is a labor shortage in many fields.
>>
>> There is NEVER a labor shortage, sir. That is like claiming a shortage of
>> polio. Labor is a disease...
>
> I have no idea what that means.
I can't even imagine the idea that ANYONE would think that labor is in
short supply. If you want some of it come on over to my place and cut
my lawn. When you're done I'll give you some more. You won't even have
to pay me for it. I'll give you all you can stand.
>> Men have been trying to escape from labor (cost) since the beginning of
>> history.
>
> No, not exactly. They have been trying to escape from *drudgery*, from
> unpleasant work, from back-breaking work, from the necessity of
> endless toil with little or no time to stop and rest and enjoy life.
That is true enough. But your take on this seems to be your desire to
foist the labor onto someone else without paying them a decent amount
for relieving you of the burden. That is the only way that anyone can
claim there is a shortage of labor. There is a virtual armies of people
willing to work for $20 per hour.
> What labor-saving devices enable us to do is more productive and/or
> rewarding work. The farmer for example still works long hours but he
> does much of it now from the comfort of an air-conditioned tractor
> listening to country music on his CDplayer - rather than trudging
> behind an ox with a plow. And he is able to work from an air-
> conditioned tractor because the same plot of land now produces
> 100times more wheat or corn or whatever than it did when he trudged
> behind the ox with a plow.
That's RIGHT!!!!! We have replace LABOR with machinery. So the amount of
labor needed is LESS. But you were trying to tell me that we had a
shortage of labor. There is no such thing as that unless you can imagine
that you are the king and you want some pyramids constructed and nobody
else want's the damned things. It is the fact that YOU want something but
you want someone else to do the labor FOR YOU. They would do it if you
paid em a bunch of dough, but otherwise they will have better things to do
such as building their kid's playhouse. There has never been nor will
there ever be a "labor shortage".
>> ... it is economies of scale that prevent actual "small business" from flowering.
>
> And who made these "economies of scale" possible - except the very
> "owners" with investment capital whom you condemn. It is these very
> economies of scale that make it possible to produce the vast
> quantities of goods which are made available even to average people at
> affordable prices. What do you think makes possible selling something
> as complex as a DVD player for $50?
You lying piece of rightarded filth. You cut out the part where I said
"The only way to have the cake and eat it too is through redistribution of
economic rent" As such I never impuned economies of scale. But a lying
piece of rightarded pig shit like you will take what you want out of
context and use it as a bludgeon because it is the only way you can ever
convince yourself that you have any validity at all. You are scum.
>> ...The application of the tax
>> revenue to health care and the like leaves the majority of the actual
>> workers in better financial shape even though they may have to pay more
>> for lip gloss and hoola hoops.
>
> How does it leave them in better financial shape if what you extract
> from one pocket by forcing them to pay higher prices for imported
> goods you merely put into the other pocket to pay for "health care and
> the like". So, now they can afford to go to the doctor but they can't
> afford clothes for their kids.
Gee... You seem to have left out the part about the reduced military and
the point that most of the spending on junk from China is, in fact, junk
from China. But you have show yourself to be the typical lying rightarded
distortion artist already and I'm not the least supprised at your cherry
picking of the data.
>>>> ...Owners, as owners make no
>>>> real contribution to production. Entrepreneurs and workers actually do
>>>> the contributing.
>>
>>> "Owners" merely provide the capital
>>
>> Capital is tractors, trucks, trains, highways, etc. and _OWNERS_ are the
>> people who _OWN_ the current capital and, more importantly, the land and
>> all the IP rights.
>
> And where did the owners get this capital? Do they have a secret place
> where they can pick it from trees? Furthermore, having capital today
> doesn't mean you will automatically have it tomorrow if you invest and
> allocate it unwisely. Compare for example the wealthy gambling addict
> who squanders his money at the casinos vs. Warren Buffett (who has
> made 1,000's of people millionaires).
They got it in all sorts of ways. Many actually earned some of it.
>> Those who borrow money on thier homes so as to build a new business are
>> not really owners. The bank owns the homes at that point. You are
>> desribing _real_ entrepreneurs. They are the risk takers and they deserve
>> the rewards for taking the risks. My hat's off to such folks.
>
> You are making an entirely arbitrary distinction here with no basis in
> reality. What difference does it make where the money comes from (so
> long as it is legal)? The investor is still risking his home in his
> new venture. If he fails, he loses the home. Are your workers willing
> to do that?
Most workers do not have any capital to risk. You ask me why the source
of the money matters while above you seem to be very concerned about the
protection of those that have it. And the source DOES matter. Was the
venture based on money created from thin air in a bank? You conclude by
agreeing with me that if the entrepreneur is actually at risk then he
deserves the rewards. I fail to see what point you think you are making.
You seem to running in circles lika a headless chicken.
> Once again,
>
>>> Come back when you've made even a minimal effort to learn some
>>> economics.
>
> And by that I mean *real* economics, not the delusions of crackpots
> like Henry George or the like.
>
> Fred Weiss
I apparently know more accidentally about economics than you will ever
know on purpose.
Let me ask you something, Bozo Butt: What happens to the price of produce
and the price of farmland in California if illegal immigration is stopped
and there is no "Guest Worker" program? Take your time. I'll be prepared
to laugh my ass off at your non answer.
--
"I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers
of society but the people themselves; and
if we think them not enlightened enough to
exercise their control with a wholesome
discretion, the remedy is not to take it from
them, but to inform their discretion by
education." - Thomas Jefferson
http://GreaterVoice.org
