The Ludlow massacre refers to the violent deaths of 20 people, 11 of them
children, during an attack by the Colorado National Guard on a tent
colony of 1,200 striking coal miners and their families at Ludlow,
Colorado in the U.S. on April 20, 1914. ....
..............
The following individuals died in the massacre and are listed on the
Ludlow Monument:
John Bartolotti. Age: 45 Yrs.
Charlie Costa. Age: 31 Yrs.
Fedelina Costa. Age: 27 Yrs.
Lucy Costa. Age: 4 Yrs.
Onafrio Costa. Age: 6 Yrs.
James Fyler. Age: 43 Yrs.
Cloriva Pedregon. Age: 4 Yrs.
Rodgerlo Pedregon. Age: 6 Yrs.
Frank Petrucci. Age: 4 Mo.
Joe Petrucci. Age: 4½ Yrs.
Lucy Petrucci. Age: 2½ Yrs.
Frank Rubino. Age: 23 Yrs.
William Snyder Jr.. Age: 11 Yrs. ...

On Sep 1, 7:09 am, ZerkonX X.net> wrote:

On Sep 1, 10:09 am, ZerkonX X.net> wrote:

"These deaths occurred after a day-long fight between strikers and the
Guard. ... the miners armed themselves and attacked dozens of mines,
destroying property and engaging in several skirmishes with the
Colorado National Guard...In leasing the tent village sites, the union
had strategically selected locations near the mouths of the canyons,
which led to the coal camps for the purpose of monitoring traffic and
harassing replacement workers. Confrontations between striking miners
and replacement workers, referred to as "scabs" by the union, often
got out of control, resulting in deaths."

The guard was called in only after -as was typically the case in this
period - "strike-related violence mounted", including in this instance
the apparent murder of a "replacement worker", i.e. a so-called
"scab". (I assume his name isn't listed on the monument).

"In response to the Ludlow massacre, the leaders of organized labor in
Colorado issued a call to arms, urging union members to acquire "all
the arms and ammunition legally available," and a large-scale...

On Sep 1, 2:33 pm, Fred Weiss papertig.com> wrote:

By way of example, during this period from the "Homestead Strike" to
the "Ludlow Massacre" while workers were going on periodic rampages,
destroying property and getting people killed, capitalists were busy
industrializing the country and introducing one innovation after
another, including electricity, the telephone, affordable automobiles,
etc. etc - all of which proved of far, far greater benefit to
"workers" and other ordinary people than anything done by the unions
(or the labor legislation which was supposed to benefit them).

Fred Weiss

The Ludlow massacre refers to the violent deaths of 20 people, 11 of them
children, during an attack by the Colorado National Guard on a tent
colony of 1,200 striking coal miners and their families at Ludlow,
Colorado in the U.S. on April 20, 1914. ....

Does the Colorado National Guard still list this amongst its many battle
honors as say for example Sand Creek ?

On Sep 1, 2:47 pm, "curmudgeon" bresnan.net> wrote:

Completely ignoring what prompted the National Guard to be there in
the first place - as it has been historically ignored why the
Pinkertons were called into the Homestead Strike.

In this era workers were heavily influenced by socialists and
anarchists, such as the IWW - the so-called Wobblies - and they were
committed to using armed struggle to get what they wanted. Strikes
often involved destruction of property as well as the physical
intimidation and actual harm of anyone who opposed them, esp. of
course anyone who choose to cross their picket lines.

"Fred Weiss" papertig.com> wrote in message
news:4f95a23b-7490-4689-910d-77f8c5bfaafd@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 1, 10:09 am, ZerkonX X.net> wrote:

"These deaths occurred after a day-long fight between strikers and the
Guard. ... the miners armed themselves and attacked dozens of mines,
destroying property and engaging in several skirmishes with the
Colorado National Guard...In leasing the tent village sites, the union
had strategically selected locations near the mouths of the canyons,
which led to the coal camps for the purpose of monitoring traffic and
harassing replacement workers. Confrontations between striking miners
and replacement workers, referred to as "scabs" by the union, often
got out of control, resulting in deaths."

The guard was called in only after -as was typically the case in this
period - "strike-related violence mounted", including in this instance
the apparent murder of a "replacement worker", i.e. a so-called
"scab". (I assume his name isn't listed on the monument).

"In response to the Ludlow massacre, the leaders of organized labor in
Colorado issued a call to arms, urging union members to acquire "all
the arms and ammunition legally available," and a large-scale...

On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 11:33:43 -0700, Fred Weiss wrote:

We do not have a Labor Day. We have a holiday which is called Labor Day.
So, no worry here.

It certainly is. you can call it any system you want but it is labor that
underpins all of them. The extraordinary standard of living you speak of
has as more to do with the Union movement, WWI, WWII.. and all wars
since, and of course the system of Debt.

It was WWII that pulled Capitalism out of ruination. It was organized
Labor that was more responsible for what is called the Middle Class of
today. That, and the land itself. Today we can see the results of the
Middle Class deterioration as Labor has lost political influence in no
small part due to the power of The Federal Government and Organized Crime
which now has a near free hand in the Unions.

On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 11:42:44 -0700, Fred Weiss wrote:

Is this to be taken seriously? All workers were on a rampage?

First, the system of capitalism then is not the same system of today so
do not try and draw pure cohesion between then and now.

Industrialization was built on system of cheap labor and urban squalor.
It is what the US and most of Europe is living off of today. Most, not
all, of the Sweat shops and the slavery have simply moved off-shore.

Some Capitalists have been in the process of moving the means of
production away from labor here for more than three decades looking for
cheaper 'pools' of labor. Many were forced into doing this. So I do not,
as you should not, want to paint some homogeneous face onto 'all
capitalists'. But as a system, the short-sighted pressure is to do so,
even at it's own expense.

The result of which is partly seen today in all the talk of a pending
global economic collapse. The 'Economic' here being the corrupted, crime
ridden system that Capitalism as morphed into today.

On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 13:44:19 -0700, Fred Weiss wrote:

Wrong.

In this era, as in all eras, workers were 'heavily influenced' by the
conditions under which they worked. All else followed from there. These
were not some happy-go-lucky workers who were then set upon by the evil
socialists who then tricked them.

As far as 'armed struggle'. Who pulled the guns out first is the
question. This was said as reaction not as some initial action.