randy wrote:
>
> "Padraic Brown"
> randy
>
>>>> It's a Jewish prayer, and Israel was the land of the Jews. Certainly
>>>> at the time of the prayer's writing. Don't like the exclusionary
>>>> language?, then simply insert "all nations"!
>
>>> Yes, but I have no right to change the words.
>
>> Why on earth not? We, Christians, have changed the very meaning of all
>> of Jewish scripture! What's the issue with changing a word or two in a
>> prayer?
>
> No, we haven't changed the Jewish scriptures at all! We see God has
> having moved, prophetically, from the covenant of Moses to the covenant
> of Jesus. There has been a wholesale change--not a simple editting of
> words.
>
> There is something inherently wrong with substituting different words in
> somebody's psalm, song, or religious recitation. Otherwise it might
> become something of a parody.
>
>> And for that matter, Christians alter the words of prayers as well, if
>> some new meaning can be drawn out or new perspective pointed out. Just
>> replace "Israel" with "America" or "the world" and have done with it!
>
> It depends on the one whose prayer it is. Jews may take their own
> prayers and legitimately alter it as they see fit. It's another thing
> for Christians to use their prayers and actually change their meaning.
>
>>> I suppose I was a bit thick. It sounded like God was creating peace out
>>> there in the galaxy, in "his high holy places."
>
>> God *is* peace. He *is* love. Whenever God reveals himself, he reveals
>> Love and Peace. When Jesus said "my peace I leave you", that was God
>> leaving us with Peace.
>
> Right. As Christians we associate peace with Jesus, or with the Holy
> Spirit. I was curious as to precisely how Jews associate peace. It it in
> heaven, out of reach? Is it to be associated with the rebuilding of the
> temple, or with the restoration of the Jewish nation? Or is it something
> that happens spiritually, in our lives right now, as we meditate on the
> Torah?
I do not presume to speak for other Jews, but for me peace is partly
Isaiah's "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation..." No doubt
there will be peace in the Time of the Messiah, but we can make some
peace ourselves in the meantime.
Part of the Kohanic blessing involves personal peace. That is
simultaneously as universal and as personal as it gets.
>
>> I don't think peace is a substance that gets literally created. The
>> satanic conflict will be resolved only when Lucifer feels the faint
>> flicker of love in his own heart again. Then, he can return in peace
>> and atonement to God. I am sure God can make that kind of peace!
>
> He can, but He won't. God seems to consider free will a universal right.
>
>> "High holy place" probably refers to what we might call heaven.
The "high places" were literally high places in an area that were often
used for pagan sacrifice.
>
> Okay, I can accept that this is Padraic's version.
> randy
