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Re: Alpha Males

Group: alt.med.veterinary · Group Profile
Author: Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
Date: Jul 15, 2006 19:46

HOWEDY judith you miserable stinkin lyin dog and child
abusing punk thug coward and PROBABLY active acute chronic
long term incurable mental case,

"Judith Althouse" webtv.net> wrote in message
news:400-44B7426E-1053@storefull-3257.bay.webtv.net...

>
> Lynn K,

Your punk thug coward pal lynn k is a PROVEN LYIN DOG
MURDERIN ACTIVE ACUTE CHRONIC LONG TERM
INCURABLE MENTAL CASE.

HERE'S PROOF:

"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
Cats? Don't bother. The answer is never," lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:

"This Article Is Something We've Put Together
For SF GSD Rescue

From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@home.com)
Subject: Re: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20

ginge...@my-deja.com wrote:

> How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.

Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.

"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works
better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in
this situation.

Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but
should be used under the direction of a trainer who knows how
to instruct the owner in their proper use. Electronics can
take the form of shock, sonic or citronella collars. At that
time the owner will train with electronics instead of food or
whatever other reward system was being used."

8) Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.
Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong
works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the
dog in this situation. Have the dog in a sit-stay next to
you with most of the slack out of the leash and let the cat
walk through the room and up to the dog if it wishes (this is
why you have the dog muzzled).

If the dog makes an aggressive move towards the
cat, it must be corrected strongly with both your
voice and the collar.

This is important - the correction must be physically
very strong - not a nag. (PS: not many dogs need
to be corrected at all)."

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to
it. When he barks, use the line for a correction.-
if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar," Lynn K.

"Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.

"Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs. It's a safety
necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

"Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.

"So what? Whoever said that it's right to
always not confront? We sure can try, but
a dog who knows a command and growls when
given it is certainly being confrontational".
You can't simply walk away and pretend it
didn't happen or leave it for later work in
every situation." Lynn K.

--------------------

"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.

And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.

Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."

Lynn K.

----------------

"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.

Should I have refused to groom them?

Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."

Lynn K.
----------------

Baghdad Bob wrote in message
...

Lynn, looks like he got you there if these
quotes are true.
In the posts below you take responsibility for
making those calls.

In your post above, you state you do not
make those calls.

Which one is it?

> I really think that is worth checking out

INDEEDY.

> and I really appreciate you taking the time to share your info with me.

You mean, LIKE THIS?:

WORDS OF WISDOM
From Our Own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg Of Lithium And 50 mg Of Zoloft
EVERY DAY
For Twenty Years

I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM

"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-
depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50
mg of Zoloft every day.

I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to
learn more, while happily sharing pertinent
information I have learned. But if I were ever
to post such sh*t, I would hope that every other
reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."

"Community is an evolutionary thing that we
earn the right to participate in by observing
the easily understood rules and contributing
to in constructive ways."

"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."

Lynn K.

-----------------------------------------

> He (Buck) the old Lab is due to go to the Vet anyway so
> he can be checked out and praised for weight loss :)

THAT'S INSANE.

> I have taken lots of classes

INDEED? You're a lyin dog abusing ignorameHOWES.

> and have a bit of experience in wildlife rehab (at least
> some wildlife not every species) and sure enough the
> weak one, the sick one is shunned attacked or worse.

Yeah. HOWE COME the DOMESTICATED CRITTERS
in your own HOWES ACT "WILD", judith?

MIGHT it be on accHOWENT of they COPY YOURSELF, judith?:

From: Judith Althouse
Subject: The Dog Whisperer

Thumbs up or Thumbs down??? I love him. He is my idol,
my hero, my guru. i want to be him when I grow up :) so,
whadda ya say do ya like him or not?

I say Thumbs UP!!!!!

Be Free,
Judy

the ces is a DOG ABUSER and a COWARD, like yourself, judith,
and THAT'S HOWE COME your dogs ATTACK EACH OTHER.

> Thank you so very much.

You're welcome, judith. It's all part an parcel of Human And
Animal Behavior Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory's
WORK heelin human and animal behavior, temperament,
physical and mental heelth issues <{) : ~ ) >

> It means so much that you take the time to post a possible answer for me.

You mean the INSANE ravings of a active acute chronic lyin
dog murderin mental patient BLAMIN THE DOGS for their
own NORMAL NATURAL INNATE INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE
RESPONSE to YOU ABUSING THEM, judith?:

yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1152256851.993248.10900@k73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

>
> Judy, I suspect that you're confusing pack dynamics
> and plain old aggression.

ALL AGGRESSION IS FEAR.

ALL FEAR IS CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.

> Pack alphas don't behave the way you describe the pit mix acting.

There AIN'T NO SUCH THING as "pack alphas" in DOMESTIC DOGS.

> Alphas are benign dictators

People who talk abHOWET "alphas" are MENTAL PATIENTS and Nazis.

> and they always stop when they achieve their goal - submission.

THAT'S INSANE. ALL AGGRESSION IS FEAR. ALL FEAR
IS CAUSED BY MISHANDLING as taught by Nazi "ALPHA
TRAINERS" like the ces and lying "I LOVE KOEHELR" lynn.

> None of us can tell what kind of aggression the pit mix
> is showing (dominance, same-sex, territorial,etc.)

UNLESS they READ judith's post DETAILING ALL the FACTS.

> but I'm pretty sure that you're dealing with
> aggression, not changing pack dynamics.

THAT'S INSANE DHOWEBLETALK.

> The bottom line is that your older lab isn't safe,

THAT'S on accHOWENT of judith likes to PUNISH her dogs
for bein FEAR AGGRESSIVE, dog lovers <{} ; ~ ) >

> and won't be safe with the pit mix.

Well then, someWON gotta GO.

> In fact, I strongly suspect that without the older lab available,
> the pit mix would switch target, probably to the new dog in
> the yard.

THAT'S INSANE.

> I realize that you're committed to the pit mix, but he is the problem.

No. The PROBLEM is judith is a dog abusing punk thug coward
and PROBABLE MENTAL CASE like lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn and the ces aka the dog whisperer.

> You need to get someone competent in to see what's happening
> and whether his behavior can be changed.

You mean, LIKE THIS?:
From: Lynn Kosmakos
Date: Fri, Nov 3 2000 1:41 am
Email: Lynn Kosmakos home.com>

Lori wrote:

> There is no TEMPERMENT too good to ruin OR too bad to save.
> The dog's heart & soul become reflex reaction to it's treatment.

Lori, I sincerely wish that were true. (the too bad to save part)

There is innate temperament that is not shaped by treatment.

The dogs our rescue gets from horrible abuse cases quickly proves that.

OTOH, I also see dogs that have never had a single triggering
incident who cannot be saved. I've got such a client right now,
a 9 month old GSD who we've been fighting to save for months.

He's been seen by Jean Donaldson and Leslie Nelson and a slew
of others, and has received nothing by loving care all his life.

His littermates are normal, his breeding excellent, and there
was no triggering event or medical cause. As much as it breaks
my heart, the dog cannot be saved.

Lynn K.

---------------

> I am open to anything.

INDEED? A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G?

LIKE THIS?:

tommy sorenson aka gentleman handsome jack morrison sez:

" At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a
dog. A swat on the rump or a check to the chin does
*not* constitute a "beating." "

And then tommy sez:

"I don't know how big you are, kiddo, so this may
not be as easy for you as it is for me, but use
a little "knee action," that is, as the dog goes
charging by you, just give the dog a little bop
with your knee and shin. Yep, really lean into it.

Even knock her over, if you can, but make sure to
make her think twice about rushing past you again -
- which is exactly what you want her to do.

Don't bother with scolding her, she'll get the message.

If it happens again, just REPEAT the knee action.

When she steps on your toes, just pick up your foot
abruptly and nudge her with your knee. Again, no
scolding is necessary here, so you don't have to
worry about her "over-reacting."

I don't think this is necessarily a lack of respect
for you, just a lack of training. That is, she just
needs *more* of it."

HOWER DOG LOVERS ARE VERY PRHOWED of THIS:

From: "Jerry Howe" cfl.rr.com>
Date: 2000/09/19
Subject: The Monks Of New Skete
Recommend These Disciplinary Measures:

The Monks look charming on the outside, but
they have heavy handed techniques.

I've seen advice as to how to hit your dog coming
from them, and lots of other non productive, even
dangerous advice.

While I realize that your definition of abuse differs
greatly from mine, I have spent most of the last thirty-
six years retraining dogs brought up and trained by
abusive techniques.

In The Art of Raising a Puppy , copyright 1991, the
Monks of New Skete recommend these disciplinary measures:

1. Scruff shake. (recommended for puppies, 8-12 weeks)
Grab scruff of neck, shake firmly, bark "NO!"

2. Shakedown. Grab sides of throat with both hands,
lifting dog's front feet off floor, stare, shake
several times, and bark "NO!"

3. "Using a firm cuff underneath the chin with your
opened hand...To make this correction effectively,
your dog must be anchored in a sitting position with
your left hand holding onto his collar.

As you make eye contact with your dog, cuff the
underside of his mouth with your opened right
hand, rapping him sharply several times, as you
say NO!" (recommended for 5-6 month old puppies)

4. Stick finger down throat to stop mouthing or
squeeze and shake muzzle hard enough to elicit
a whine, and bark "NO!"

5. To stop jumping, grab front paws of jumping
pup, and force him to remain in that position
long enough to become uncomfortable.

6. Leash Pop with choke collar (Also pupularized
as the Margolis Jerk)

Those actions and attitudes are behaviors your
dog will learn to copy, and apply to you.

Let me start by calling attention to the recent
notoriety of shaken baby syndrome. Although dogs
have a loose scruff, the brain damage can result
just the same, and disk damage may occur.

The ubiquitous leash pop is my number one gripe.
It is recommended and used by almost everyone.
The sharp corrections on leash continue throughout
the life of the dog.

It is recommended they be increased in severity
and frequency as the dog becomes more resistant
and the trainer thinks the dog knows what is
expected of him but the dog refuses to do it.

(Dogs don't do things out of spite!) Nerve damage
can result from leash corrections. Makes me nauseous
to hear people say that dogs don't feel pain the
same way we do.

As a society we don't condone treating our children
or employees that way. What makes abuse O.K. for
animals? Force, abuse, and punishment do not have
any place in a learning environment!

Most of the mistakes our dogs make are not even
understood by the dog to be mistakes. The punishment
is not understood, and behavior problems result
from the abuse.

BUT YOU SEZ:

"My objective is always to find a way that WORKS.
And if it is DANGEROUS behavior that I'm trying
to modify, behavior than can get the dog KILLED,
I will resort to ANYTHING to save him.

A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G.

Okay. Call me a cruel, inhumane, abusive bastard
if you want to, but it doesn't affect me at all.
When you've saved the lives of as many dogs as I
have, you'll learn that that's the only thing that
really matters. Saving lives and making dogs become
good citizens"

HOWE abHOWET all them DEAD DOGS you TRAINED RIGHT
HERE that your TERRORIZM DIDN'T SAVE, tommy?

Like Robert Crim's, kwbrown's, laura arlov's,
tara o.' DEAD DOGS, FOR EXXXAMPLE, tommy?

> and the dogs they produce.

You mean, LIKE THIS?:

From: Tara verizon.net>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 17:58:51 GMT

Subject: Re: good dog training books?

I've personally seen their methods (as applied by
them) NOT work on dogs they themselves have bred.

IMO, their methods actually made the underlying problems
*worse*. In three cases, where they both bred and trained
the dogs, they subsequently washed their hands of the dogs
and suggested euthanasia....and then promptly tried to
talk the owners into taking another one of their own pups.

Since I have serious issues and doubts about the
practices and ethics of the Monks, I obviously
only support the latter two ;-)

Tara

> Thanks for caring and sharing.....

THANK YOU judith.

The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing
Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard
COULDN'T DO THIS witHOWET YOUR FREE HEELP!

> Be Free,

The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing
Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard is
WORKIN on it DESPITE your interference and objections.

> Judy

O.K., judith, back to the mental HOWES with you:

"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAaustralianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...

>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

>> When you compare using sound and
>> praise to solve a problem with using
>> shock collars, hanging, and punishment
>> how can you criticize the use of sound?

> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.

> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.

> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>

>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.

>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>

>> After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
>> would be the point? Where I come from, choking
>> is choking. It's never limited.

>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>

From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST

Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.

Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

---------------

Sometimes my "voice of god" startles human
and dog, especially when the human didn't
see the inappropriate behaviour. --Matt.
Rocky's a Dog.

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day

Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.

Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's
just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14

Bioso...@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<37D698CF.405B0...@bellsouth.net>:

> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.

Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.

Why did you blow it?

--Matt

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????

Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?

I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918australianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...

> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>

>> But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.

> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

"dallygirl" hotmail.com> said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> choke chains are outdated and barbaric in many cases
> causing more harm than good.

> Does that include tone of voice? Some tools are easier
> to ban than others.

yes - screaming banshees are told to shut up! And I
always have to remind spouses that they may NOT do the
"honey - you're supposed to be doing it like THIS"......
--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album

lying frosty dahl, oakhill kennels wrote:
Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper wield
the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them
more sharply

Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and
the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist!
Eventually, the dog will give in

but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their
efforts to escaping the ear pinch

You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell
instead of your thumb even get a studded collar
and pinch the ear against that

Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so
urgent that resisting your will fades in importance.

CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever Ready
Right Hand, As it catches on, try using the stick
and no ear pinch.

When the dog is digging out to beat the stick
and seems totally reliable without any ear pinch,
you are finished

If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin,
say "No! Hold!"

(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps because
the ear is getting tender, or the dog has decided
it isn't worth it)" lying frosty dahl.

"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap,"
professora gingold.

terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context, because you
are full of bizarro manure."

"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.

"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.

THAT'S sumpthin to be PR-HOWED abHOWET, eh matty?

Rocky wrote:

> "Deltones" hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>

>> After your defense of "Limited" choking, what would
>> be the point? Where I come from, choking is choking.
>> It's never limited.

>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>

Deltones wrote:

>
> Rocky wrote:
>

>> "Deltones" hotmail.com>

>>> After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
>>> would be the point? Where I come from, choking
>>> is choking. It's never limited.

Not so in PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING, Deltones.

>> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
>> Thank you for your contribution.
>> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

Looks like you've pushed the mental cases over the edge again...

> Well, I think you carefully avoided quoting the last part of my post.
> You know the one about a bunch of little Colonel Parker doing Elvis's
> out of their dogs? Oh right, limited choking is not abuse, and pumping
> dogs full of drugs to make them behave ain't either in your world huh?
> For the benefit of our gentle readers, here's the part you forgot to
> quote:

> Oh, what the hell. Check out a thread started around Nov 23 called
> "Help with a Nuerotic Hound..." where I wonder if you guys are talking
> about dogs or Woody Allen's pharmacy. I'll stick with praises and noise
> distraction to train my dog, thank you.
>
> ----------

"J1Boss" aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040324071828.07753.00000001@mb-m18.aol.com...

> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
> Janet Boss
>

"sionnach" msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...

> "J1Boss" aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916.10096.00001938@mb-m17.aol.com...

>>> I can't imagine needing anything higher
>>> than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
>>> dog like a Lab.

An INSENSITIVE DOG???

>> I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
>> I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to
it. When he barks, use the line for a correction.-
if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar," Lynn K.

"Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.

"Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs. It's a safety
necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

"Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.

"So what? Whoever said that it's right to
always not confront? We sure can try, but
a dog who knows a command and growls when
given it is certainly being confrontational".
You can't simply walk away and pretend it
didn't happen or leave it for later work in
every situation." Lynn K.

--------------------

"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.

And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.

Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."

Lynn K.

----------------

"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.

Should I have refused to groom them?

Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."

Lynn K.

----------------

I'll be you've never had to put down litters of
beautiful labrador puppies? If you had did, maybe
you'd be singing a different tune?

"Actually, have held them for the tech to euth, and
put their bodies in the trash bag and in the freezer
for the trash company to come and dispose of.

No different tune," ~Emily

~emily is a vivisectionist for a med research laboratory.

From: "Deltones" hotmail.com>
Date: 2 Dec 2005 10:55:41 -0800
Subject: Re: In defense of Jerry Howe's methods

Mary Healey wrote:

> I'm still asking for 5 original posts from people here at least 5
> years to support your initial contention (NOT HURTING DOGS TO TRAIN

THEM). You're 0 for 2, so far.

That's 2 in 2 as far as I'm concerned but hey, if you insist. I'm
really curious to see what will be the justification this time. So far
we have:

Limited choking? Hey, it's limited, As
Neo would say: Woah, there is no choke.

Dogs pumped full of prozac? Hey, they're trippin
man. Remember Woodstock. Euh.... Woodwhat?

E-Collar? I'm sure some of you will come up with: But my
dog look so pretty with an electrified perm. Swoooon.

So on with the fun. Taken from the "Collars" thread,
started by Perry Templeton June 20 2005

Denis
------------

On 26 Jun 2005 10:52:42 -0700, lucyaa...@claque.net, wrote:

> What does the "choke" in the "choke chain" stand for, then?
> Lucy

one reason I call them slip collars. Their is a correction involved,
and while it causes momentary discomfort, does not choke the dog.
OTOH, it is CAPABLE fo being used to do that, should a situation
warrant it.
--
Janet B
----------

And here's another one from the same author,
taken from the same thread.

---------

167. Janet B
Jun 21, 12:03 pm show options
On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:40:11 +0100, "Alison"

XYZallofus2.fsnet.co.uk>, wrote:

> I'm just wondering why you had to use choke chains to train"your
> dogs especially as they are so small.

Oh geez - let's see - how many JRTs act like alligators at the end of
a leash? I personally prefer prong collars.

----------

Let's go for the hat trick with the same author, taken from the same
thread:

----------

141. Janet B
Jun 27, 10:01 pm

I don't use choke chains. Not quite true - I use a jeweler's hex link

on Franklin at times - it's puuuuuurty. I know the "sound" thing
and all, and when training a dog in a non-group setting, that sound
may be a factor, but I think it fails in the context of a group class.

So, I prefer the better fitting nylon slip collars, and very often,
pinch collars (small link unless it's a freaky dog, then they need
the milder medium link).

But I use e-collars too. With one of my dogs and with some clients.
For circumstances where a physical collar and leash is not the right
answer. I'm sure Lucy has no clue what THAT means!
--
Janet B
----------

HOWEDY janet,

Looks like you and your pals have gone totally INSANE again:

Janet B wrote:

> On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 14:44:14 -0500, Janet B
> bestfriendsdogobedience.com>, clicked their heels and said:

>> Since you quoted me repeatedly, where does it say I beat dogs, choke
>> dogs, scream at dogs, etc? Thanks for your clarification.

> responding to my own post, I had to go back and look at the original
> post, to remind myself what "we" are all accused of doing:
>
> "screaming, choking, shocking, pinching, beating the living crap
> out of your dogs"
>
> Scream? no
>
> Choke? no
>
> Shock? e-collars are a lot more sophisticated than that
>
> Pinch? if you want to classify a momentary discomfort by a prong
> collar, go ahead, but unless you have first hand experience with
> one, your opinion means nothing
>
> Beat the living crap out of? hardly - no hitting exists

"Chin CHUCK absolutely doesn't mean slap,"
professora gingold.

"BethF" NOT-SO-bad-dawgs-in-ak.com>
wrote in message
news:v4r8kkfr257e1a@corp.supernews.com...

Kyle, FWIW, i thought it was pretty funny,
and i often call my little dog the turd, because
he is one. Some folks think its HORRRIBLE i
would insult my dog like that so i guess its just a
matter of personality.

Kyle, the best way to teach him to stay away is to
step on him once. Seriously.

"Whatever Motivates The Dog, But I Daresay Most
Of The Dogs I Have In Classes Just Aren't That
Interested In Praise."

"BethF" alaska.com> wrote in message
news:uohnj3r4a4e85e@corp.supernews.com...

Maybe that's what we should do - hold back the dobie
girl so that Izzy can put Simon in his place.

"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness," mustang sally.

"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me.
I volunteered as assistant to the euthanasia
tech at our local shelter for a while, and
I know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted
animals.

This however has nothing at all to do with
responsible breeders, because responsible
breeders don't contribute to that problem,"
Mustang Sally.

Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001
Subject: Re: shock collars

Sally Hennessey ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:b8m1dtsv6vuiblo63h8ekqiforibadrff2@4ax.com...

Aside from being incredibly offensive and self-
righteous, this post shows and absence of knowledge
in the differences in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps
a lack of ability to perceive same.

The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to
whom corrections and discomfort, even pain, were
unimportant does not mean that such dogs do not exist.

What it means is that you don't know as much about
dogs as you think you do, and you surely don't know
a damn thing about Harlan or anyone else's dog here.

I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with
one of her housemates; that dog had no fear or
anything, and pain incurred during a fight meant
nothing to her.

I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories. The fact that
you, Alison, continue to say things to people such as
what you said to Theresa about causing her dog to
suffer (at least I guess that's what you meant by
"you cause your dog suffers" - - must be the King's
English you guys talk about over there) means that
you are an ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person
who is not worth further notice.

Sally Hennessey

"Sally Hennessey" ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:54nuetsqgkhp26qqv128jnumgmb2m27opr@4ax.com...

Nope. No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.

I'm starting to see some similarities here.

Sally Hennessey

3 From: sighthounds & siberians
Date: Mon, Jun 12 2006 4:16 pm

montana wildhack wrote:

> On 2006-06-10 16:56:28 -0400, sighthounds & siberians ncweb.com> said:

>> Plus
>> she's easier to clean up when she

> I'm sorry to read that.

> Aside from the shedding, I hardly know how to act since we have one
> almost 5 year old dog with no major health issues. It's really weird.

I dream of such weirdness. Matty's death reduced the number of males
requiring belly bands for medical reasons, as well as the number of
dogs taking Previcox. But Anna's feeding routines and medications are
really expensive and time-consuming. On a good note, she stopped
eating canned food during the last bout of aspiration pneumonia (#5, I
think) and we switched her to kibble (soaked until soggy, then ground
up with a mixer until it's sort of a paste, and formed into balls).
*Much* cheaper, less messy when she inevitably coughs it all over the
vicinity and the person feeding, higher in calories, and she really
likes it, at least for now. I can't imagine what it would be like to
never chew anything crunchy again, poor dog.

Mustang Sally

"Janet Boss offered a pat on the back, commenting that
ultimately it wasn't Kate's decision. Whose was it? I asked.
Why, it was Teena's, averred Janet.

Janet was in an exculpatory frame of mind because she
contributed to this travesty herself, by advising Kate to
repeat the aggression trigger (grooming) on a daily basis.

It's all in the archives.

Now these two are spouting off about what kind of e-collars
they like to use on their dogs. Well, I've got an AC Delco
model that would be just right for Janet or Kate. BZZZZzzt!
I'd have to find it though, and I can't remember if I left
it in my underground bunker or the crawlspace under my
house," Charlie.

Here's janet's PARTNER:

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

sinofabitch writes:

>> What I have said- repeatedly - is that he
>> took posts from two different people,
>> took pieces of them out of context,

Of curse. QUOTED. You wanna see it in context?

>> cobbled them together,

No. There was WON DIRECT QUOTE.

>> then added his own words:

"Neatly," and "Smartly."

>> and a fake signature.

"sinofabitch" instead of sionnach.

>> Which is exactly what he did.

INDEEDY. That's HOWE COME you deny it.

>> The actual quote is misleading

That so?

>> when taken out of context,

We'd been talkin abHOWET beatin the dog with a shoe...

>> and Jerry's faked "quote"

The WON sinofabitch totally DENIES.

>> is downright meaningless.

Only if you're a MENTAL CASE.

Here's Jerry's version

"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.

Here's yours:

"I dropped the leash, threw my
right arm over the Lab's shoulder,
grabbed her opposite foot with my
left hand, rolled her on her side,
leaned on her, said "GRRRR!" and
nipped her ear.
--Sara Sionnach

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

See?

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "CourteHOWES Canine."

"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?

When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first time,
spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth and walk
away. The dog won't be too thrilled with this but just
ignore him and continue your normal behavior."
--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"CourteHOWES Canines"

"Marshall Dermer" alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:a3h5qn$mra$1@uwm.edu...

> Di,
> I don't believe you mentioned a particular kind of
> training. If you are interested in training retrieval
> behavior than do consider our own Amy Dahl's:
> The 10-Minute Retriever : How to Make a Well-
> Mannered, Obedient and Enthusiastic Gun Dog
> in 10 Minutes a Day by John I. Dahl, Amy Dahl

You failed to mention your pals the dahls are
proven liars and dog abusers, professor "SCRUFF SHAKE:"

"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A Dog
I Do Not Believe There Is A Single Circumstance
Ever, Where Slapping A Dog Is Anything But
Destructive," "I don't see why anyone would want
to choke or beat a dog, or how any trainer could
possibly get a good working dog by making them
unhapper, fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying
frosty dahl.

> just $17.95 at Amazon.com.
> (Also, it is best to killfile posts from the few
> regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
> ill-mannered, or just plain ill.)
> --Marshall

amy lying frosty dahl continues:

"On the other extreme, the really ard dogs
we have trained require much more frequent
and heavy application of pressure (PAIN j.h.)
to get the job done,

This is continued resistance to your increasing
authority, and the job is not done until it is overcome

Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper wield
the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them
more sharply

Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and
the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist!
Eventually, the dog will give in

but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their
efforts to escaping the ear pinch

You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell
instead of your thumb even get a studded collar
and pinch the ear against that

Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so
urgent that resisting your will fades in importance.

CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever Ready
Right Hand, As it catches on, try using the stick
and no ear pinch.

When the dog is digging out to beat the stick
and seems totally reliable without any ear pinch,
you are finished

If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin,
say "No! Hold!"

(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps because
the ear is getting tender, or the dog has decided
it isn't worth it)" lying frosty dahl.

"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap,"
professora gingold.

terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context, because you
are full of bizarro manure."

lying frosty dahl sez she doesn't twist:

"None of my posts, prior to or subsequent to
Jerry Howe's attacks, encourage anyone to
twist ears, beat dogs, confront, intimidate,
frighten, or any of the crap he constantly
attributes to me," lying frosty dahl.

BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!

"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.

Perhaps the mom dog didn't want her babies
HURT all their lives like HOWE HOWER dog
lovers PREFER to HURT THEIR DOGS?

"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
rump with a training stick while holding him partially
off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
to the line and cast him back to the dummies."

The Puppy Wizard sez a mom dog eatin her babies
to SAVE THEM from a fate like that, is COMMENDABLE.

We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL...

Sez on our FAQ'S pages at K9 Web you should
knee the dog in the chest, step on its toes, throw
him down by his ears and climb all over it like a
raped ape growling into his throat and bite IT on
his ears, or leash pop it on a pronged spiked pinch
choke collar or pop him in the snout with the heel
of your palm.

"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.

BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
Dealing With This (Destructive Separation
Anxiety). I've Suggested It To Quite A Few
Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY TIME
The Very First Time' - marilyn, Trainer, 33
Years Experience.

You DO remember KILLFILING MARILYN for
her coment above regarding her success with
The Puppy Wizard's Surrogate Toy Separation
Anxiety / Bed Time Calming / Submissive
Urination Technique (STSA/BTC/SUT)?

Perhaps you likeWIZE recall a pediatrician, Dr. Z,
who commented that his bed time calming technique
was quite similar?

>> You're scary Marilyn.
>> Marilyn must be quite a disturbed individual.
>> I feel very sorry for her and her family.

"His Amazing Progress Almost Makes Me Cry.
Your Method Takes Positive Training To The
Next Level And Should Really Be Used By All
Trainers Who Call Themselves Trainers. Thank
You For Helping Me Save His Life," Kay Pierce,
Professional Trainer, 30 Years Experience.

"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know Jack
Wouldn't Have Done It If He Thought Solo Couldn't
Take It. I Still Crate Him Because Otherwise I Fear
He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "CourteHOWES Canine."

"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?

When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first time,
spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth and walk
away. The dog won't be too thrilled with this but just
ignore him and continue your normal behavior."
--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"CourteHOWES Canines"

We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL...

"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAaustralianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...