I'm a skeptic. I've read probably two dozen books on magick and chaos
magick but I don't see a lot of discussion about the actual *results*
of all these magickal operations people are carrying out.

So let me ask bluntly: what results have you seen? Most people talk
about vague BS like "I felt a renewed sense of self-confidance".
Great. You could do that by working out at the gym or taking a shot of
whiskey. "I perceived protection from infernal enemies." Swell.
Were you ever really in danger? Etc.

- In other words, why aren't all magi millionaires? ;-) I know,
queue the "money isn't everything" stories, but I would think a
financially independent magus would have even more time to work on his
craft and there are all sorts of "prosperity" spells and such out
there. It seems a focus of a lot of magickal work but when I ask
people I get answers like "well, I sold $25 more at the faire last
weekend than what I expected."

- Have you ever invoked or conjured something? And I don't mean
something that was just dancing around in your head.

- Have you ever done any love or attraction magick and had an actual
result with it?

On 2 feb, 20:20, Aftermath Fan gmail.com> wrote:

The girls better avoid you, then.

M.H.Benders

"Aftermath Fan" gmail.com> wrote in message
news:399278fe-ea3e-4bb7-868e-4f9386c7273b@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

Magick works by altering ones beliefs and perceptions. The results you will
see that can be measured will be in the realm of changes in outlook, not of
changes in pocketbook.

But that's where the invoked thing does all its dancing.

With very few exceptions, anybody who actually wants to attract a romantic
relationship will eventually get what they want. It's a foregone
conclusion. Claiming that you attracted love by doing a love magic ritual
is like claiming that you caused the sun to rise because you did a sun
invocation just before dawn.

On Feb 2, 1:20 pm, Aftermath Fan gmail.com> wrote:

An earlier werk, kindaofa short-handed manephleshtoe-

Amercikanized Kaos Monastyzchismz-

The Idea is to take the coordinated flesh and the flows of emotion
along with the crystaline patterns of intellectual parallel
computation and make the Demonoid Beast Machine, the essential atavism
combined with cybernetic effiencency and endless praeternatural
energies. Tapping the root, building the trunk, and touching the skies
with leaves.

We are in essence so much more then domesticated primates mindlessly
dreaming out our existences on this Spaceship Urth.
If one tackles the problems involved in building the Being-Complex
along with the demands for subsistence and for intersocial exchange we
can come to a new definition of the crafting of an Ubermensch from
what we find ourselves perverted into miscrystalizations.

will

of

I disagree. Maybe it "alters your outlook" as a means toward an end, but
the end purpose of Magick is to alter the world/universe around you.

Again, no, that's a cop out. The end purpose is to alter the outside world
with inner willpower.

[etc. I disagree with most of that post]

"Aftermath Fan" gmail.com> wrote in message
news:399278fe-ea3e-4bb7-868e-4f9386c7273b@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

First off it's great that you've at least been open minded about it. I'm a
skeptic too.

The most profound overt and otherwise-inexplicable physical effect I've seen
(in my extremely limited encounters with Magick) was in enchanting a key
that didn't open a lock; after the enchantment it did open the lock; and I
did it, so I know it wasn't a trick. That's the most profound PHYSICAL
manifestation I've seen that can't be otherwise explained. I've seen and
felt things that, at least for me, seem to be more related to TIMING (things
occurring together in a fortuitous manner and a low-level ability to predict
the near future. By near future I mean within an hour or two.)

On Sun, 3 Feb 2008 02:30:30 -0800, "Slippy" rasfdf.com> muttered
intensely:

"You can't change the world unless you change yourself".

On Feb 3, 11:15 am, Brett earthlink.net> wrote:

"And if you can't change yourself, then change the world."

Erwin Hessle, 8=3

On Feb 3, 11:27 am, Erwin Hessle erwinhessle.com> wrote: